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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 11 Jan 2021, 11:51
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EducationAisle
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why is "changes" singular? should it not be that changes have been proposed?
The structure is actually this:

...their management has proposed changes.

So, changes is not the subject but the object. The subject is management and hence, singular verb has has been used.
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EducationAisle
But it seems that 'changes' is the subject for the verb 'will', isn't it?
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 11 Jan 2021, 22:50
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TheUltimateWinner

But it seems that 'changes' is the subject for the verb 'will', isn't it?
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That is correct.

i) For has proposed, the subject is management
ii) For will be, the subject is changes
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 28 Feb 2021, 11:05
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ManuelJesus
Hello everybody,

Do ''Either X or Y'' and ''Whether X or Y'' work interchangeably? Are those structures the same?

Kind regards,

Manuel
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Hi can someone please explain this difference?
Do ''Either X or Y'' and ''Whether X or Y'' work interchangeably?
Is option C incorrect because the usage of either or?
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 28 Feb 2021, 23:50
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ManuelJesus
Hello everybody,

Do ''Either X or Y'' and ''Whether X or Y'' work interchangeably? Are those structures the same?

Kind regards,

Manuel


Hi can someone please explain this difference?
Do ''Either X or Y'' and ''Whether X or Y'' work interchangeably?
Is option C incorrect because the usage of either or?
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mk96
No, they cannot be used interchangeably. They play different roles. I do not have the exact technical explanation of the 2 terms, but I would say "either" is more complete/independent. Eg - Either you pick Spanish or you pick French. (You can call this a complete sentence).

Whether X or Y is usually followed by a condition/explanation of some sort. Whether you pick spanish or you pick french, I don't care.. I had to add the add the underlined part otherwise it would have just been a run-on.

C is an absolute mess of a sentence. One of the major grammatical issues is parallelism, as already described by GMAT ninja in one of his posts above.

Hope this helps!
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop Updated on: 24 Dec 2021, 23:58
Originally posted by kadamhari825 on 15 Sep 2021, 04:23.
Last edited by kadamhari825 on 24 Dec 2021, 23:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Hello experts generis egmat EducationAisle sayantanc2k AjiteshArun

Can anyone help me understand what 'they' and 'their' refers to in this SC question?
i eliminated A,B,D, AND E on the basis of pronoun antecedent error.

Thanks.
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 20 Sep 2021, 19:35
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Please provide your comments on this topic!
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 20 Sep 2021, 23:16
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Metalking
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Please provide your comments on this topic!
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Please read the thread:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/whether-they ... l#p2302869
https://gmatclub.com/forum/whether-they ... l#p2334593
https://gmatclub.com/forum/whether-they ... l#p2620041

Hope it helps.
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 21 Sep 2021, 19:46
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Bunuel
Metalking
GMATNinja

Please provide your comments on this topic!

Please read the thread:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/whether-they ... l#p2302869
https://gmatclub.com/forum/whether-they ... l#p2334593
https://gmatclub.com/forum/whether-they ... l#p2620041

Hope it helps.
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Thank you Bunuel for pointing me to the relevant section!
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 28 Sep 2021, 16:57
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop doing business with us altogether depends on whether the changes that their management has proposed will be fully implemented.

(A) Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop doing business with us altogether depends on whether the changes that their management has proposed will be fully implemented.
This is fine.

(B) Whether they scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or whether they discontinue their business with us altogether depends on the changes their management has proposed, if fully implemented or not.
Whether they scale back ... whether they discontinue ... is redundant. It should be whether they scale back... or discontinue... In addition, If fully implemented or not is redundant. You do not need the use of "or not".

(C) Their either scaling back their orders in the future to pre-2003 levels, or their outright termination of business with us, depends on their management’s proposed changes being fully implemented or not.
Nonsensical meaning. How does one scale back their orders in the future to the past?
In addition, same redundancy issue as seen in B.

(D) Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop doing business with us altogether depends if the changes that their management has proposed become fully implemented.
Wrong use of "if".


(E) They will either scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels, or they will stop doing business with us altogether dependent on whether the changes their management has proposed will be fully implemented, or not.
same redundancy issue as seen in B.
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 25 Dec 2021, 00:58
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kadamhari825

Can anyone help me understand what 'they' and 'their' refers to in this SC question?
i eliminated A,B,D, AND E on the basis of pronoun antecedent error.
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Indeed, GMAT seems to playing slightly smart here, since there is no explicit antecedent of they/their.

But the good part is that all the five options (including C) use similar structure; so pronoun antecedent is not a differentiating factor here.
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 08 Mar 2022, 09:18
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egmat
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i need help on this...If first whether has OR with it in Option A then why whether at the end of option A dont have OR with it?



Hello rocko911,

I will be glad to help you out with this one. :-)


Following is the expanded version of the original sentence (the correct answer choice):


Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels (or not) or (whether they will) stop doing business with us altogether (or not) depends on whether the changes that their management has proposed will be fully implemented (or not).


So you see, or not has NOT been used in the sentence for any instance of whether. It is so because usage of or not along with whether is considered wordy on GMAT SC.

Conjunction or has been used to present either of the two situation:

1. Production will be scaled back or not
2. The business will stop altogether or not


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Hi egmat and GMATNinja


I am unable to form the sentence structure here. What is the subject for the verb depends? Is it a clause, if yes is it a DC clause? Thanks.
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 15 Mar 2022, 11:00
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rinkuda
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rocko911

i need help on this...If first whether has OR with it in Option A then why whether at the end of option A dont have OR with it?



Hello rocko911,

I will be glad to help you out with this one. :-)


Following is the expanded version of the original sentence (the correct answer choice):


Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels (or not) or (whether they will) stop doing business with us altogether (or not) depends on whether the changes that their management has proposed will be fully implemented (or not).


So you see, or not has NOT been used in the sentence for any instance of whether. It is so because usage of or not along with whether is considered wordy on GMAT SC.

Conjunction or has been used to present either of the two situation:

1. Production will be scaled back or not
2. The business will stop altogether or not


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha


Hi egmat and GMATNinja


I am unable to form the sentence structure here. What is the subject for the verb depends? Is it a clause, if yes is it a DC clause? Thanks.
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Consider a simpler example:

    "Whether the Kings win an NBA title next season depends on whether most of their players get dramatically better at basketball."

Here, the portion in red is the main subject of the verb "depends," and is itself a dependent clause. The terminology is less important than recognizing that 1) this usage is perfectly fine and 2) the "whether" clause needs a singular verb.

I hope that clears things up!
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 22 Mar 2022, 06:35
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GMATNinja

Hi Charles,

Can we almost always eliminate answer choices if they have any sort of redundancy.
For example, in this case, can the sole occurrence of 'whether or not' classify as
strong elimination reason, or should we look at more concrete reasoning.

Please suggest.
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 22 Mar 2022, 06:42
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Hello GMATNinja,

This is regarding option E
(E) They will either scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels, or they will stop doing business with us altogether dependent on whether the changes their management has proposed will be fully implemented, or not.
This describes an 'either X or Y' structure, where X and Y should be parallel.
X--> scale (verb)
Y--> they (pronoun)
X and Y are clearly not parallel, and hence is the reason for elimination?

What if option E changes to
(E) They will either scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels, or stop doing business with us altogether dependent on whether the changes their management has proposed will be fully implemented, or not.
Here 'They will' is taken away as common from the 'either X or Y' structure. Would this choice be correct then?
Please suggest if I am missing something in option E.

Thank you in advance!
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 28 Mar 2022, 11:47
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niyatisuri
Hello GMATNinja,

This is regarding option E
(E) They will either scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels, or they will stop doing business with us altogether dependent on whether the changes their management has proposed will be fully implemented, or not.
This describes an 'either X or Y' structure, where X and Y should be parallel.
X--> scale (verb)
Y--> they (pronoun)
X and Y are clearly not parallel, and hence is the reason for elimination?

What if option E changes to
(E) They will either scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels, or stop doing business with us altogether dependent on whether the changes their management has proposed will be fully implemented, or not.
Here 'They will' is taken away as common from the 'either X or Y' structure. Would this choice be correct then?
Please suggest if I am missing something in option E.

Thank you in advance!
Show more
Even if we fix the parallelism, we have a "whether... or not" structure that the GMAT considers redundant.

Also, "dependent on whether..." doesn't seem idiomatically correct (not sure why you wouldn't use "depending on..." instead). Regardless, does the "dependent on..." part only go with the second half of the either/or list? The upfront placement of the "whether..." part in (A) makes the meaning more clear.

But I wouldn't worry too much about trying to fix an answer choice. As long as you understand why (A) is better than (E) as written, you've done your job.

niyatisuri
GMATNinja

Hi Charles,

Can we almost always eliminate answer choices if they have any sort of redundancy.
For example, in this case, can the sole occurrence of 'whether or not' classify as
strong elimination reason, or should we look at more concrete reasoning.

Please suggest.
Show more

I certainly don't recall seeing "whether or not" in a correct answer choice. That said, the moment we think we've uncovered a "rule," the GMAT tends to put us in our place. :) Usually "whether or not" isn't the only deciding factor, so I'd recommend looking for other clues to support eliminating any options where it appears.

I hope that helps!
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 27 Apr 2022, 01:05
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GMATNinja sir generis sir aragonn Kindly explain this question......
There are two juicy decision points here. First, we have a choice between "if" and "whether" in the second clause of the sentence:

  • "If" sets off a conditional statement. "If Tim forgets to feed to feed his children, the poor kids will forget not to scream incessantly for several hours."
  • "Whether" indicates a choice between options: "Because the household food supplies were extremely limited, Tim couldn't decide whether to feed his children or to feed his parakeet." (Tim's parakeet loves fruit leather.)

Both (B) and (D) incorrectly use "if" to indicate options in the second clause: the changes might be implemented, or not. (Notice that the "or not" is implied in (D).) In this case, "whether" is correct, so (B) and (D) are out.

Next, (C) and (E) contain the parallel marker, "either." Here's the relevant portion of (C):

    "...either scaling back their orders in the future to pre-2003 levels, or their outright termination."

"Scaling" is not parallel" to "their outright termination, so (C) is gone. And here's the relevant portion of (E):

    "...either scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels, or they."

"Scale" isn't parallel to "they" so we can get rid of (E).

That leaves us with (A), which is our answer. Neat.

I hope that helps!
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Thanks for the wonderful explanation,
however, I am still confused,
which construction is it?
weather X or Y = weather X (or not) or weather Y (or not)
OR
its weather X or Y= a choice between X and Y?
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 04 May 2022, 13:42
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GMATNinja sir generis sir aragonn Kindly explain this question......
There are two juicy decision points here. First, we have a choice between "if" and "whether" in the second clause of the sentence:

  • "If" sets off a conditional statement. "If Tim forgets to feed to feed his children, the poor kids will forget not to scream incessantly for several hours."
  • "Whether" indicates a choice between options: "Because the household food supplies were extremely limited, Tim couldn't decide whether to feed his children or to feed his parakeet." (Tim's parakeet loves fruit leather.)

Both (B) and (D) incorrectly use "if" to indicate options in the second clause: the changes might be implemented, or not. (Notice that the "or not" is implied in (D).) In this case, "whether" is correct, so (B) and (D) are out.

Next, (C) and (E) contain the parallel marker, "either." Here's the relevant portion of (C):

    "...either scaling back their orders in the future to pre-2003 levels, or their outright termination."

"Scaling" is not parallel" to "their outright termination, so (C) is gone. And here's the relevant portion of (E):

    "...either scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels, or they."

"Scale" isn't parallel to "they" so we can get rid of (E).

That leaves us with (A), which is our answer. Neat.

I hope that helps!

Thanks for the wonderful explanation,
however, I am still confused,
which construction is it?
weather X or Y = weather X (or not) or weather Y (or not)
OR
its weather X or Y= a choice between X and Y?
Show more
The first "whether" states two options: 1) they can scale back their orders OR 2) they can stop doing business.

The second "whether" implies the second option: 1) the proposed changes will be implemented OR 2) the changes won't be implemented.

Generally, if the second element isn't stated, there's an implied "or not."

I hope that clears things up!
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 26 Jun 2022, 23:08
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GMATNinja sir generis sir aragonn Kindly explain this question......
There are two juicy decision points here. First, we have a choice between "if" and "whether" in the second clause of the sentence:

  • "If" sets off a conditional statement. "If Tim forgets to feed to feed his children, the poor kids will forget not to scream incessantly for several hours."
  • "Whether" indicates a choice between options: "Because the household food supplies were extremely limited, Tim couldn't decide whether to feed his children or to feed his parakeet." (Tim's parakeet loves fruit leather.)

Both (B) and (D) incorrectly use "if" to indicate options in the second clause: the changes might be implemented, or not. (Notice that the "or not" is implied in (D).) In this case, "whether" is correct, so (B) and (D) are out.

Next, (C) and (E) contain the parallel marker, "either." Here's the relevant portion of (C):

    "...either scaling back their orders in the future to pre-2003 levels, or their outright termination."

"Scaling" is not parallel" to "their outright termination, so (C) is gone. And here's the relevant portion of (E):

    "...either scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels, or they."

"Scale" isn't parallel to "they" so we can get rid of (E).

That leaves us with (A), which is our answer. Neat.

I hope that helps!
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well, surprising thing is pronouns they, them are not referring to anything in the sentence. Is this ok? experts?
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 08 Jul 2022, 22:52
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Query regarding SV in the sentence:

Hi Experts (e-GMAT,GMAT Ninja, Daagh)

Request you to help understand the Subject verb pairs in this sentence.

Whether
they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels (Clause 1)
or stop doing business with us altogether (Clause 2)
depends on
whether the changes (Clause 3)
that their management has proposed (Clause 4)
will be fully implemented (Clause 3 contd).

Are Clauses 1 and 2 act as Subject for verb depends?
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Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop 21 Jul 2022, 10:48
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nvs18
Query regarding SV in the sentence:

Hi Experts (e-GMAT,GMAT Ninja, Daagh)

Request you to help understand the Subject verb pairs in this sentence.

Whether
they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels (Clause 1)
or stop doing business with us altogether (Clause 2)
depends on
whether the changes (Clause 3)
that their management has proposed (Clause 4)
will be fully implemented (Clause 3 contd).

Are Clauses 1 and 2 act as Subject for verb depends?
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Don't overcomplicate it!

"Whether they will scale back their orders" is the subject of the verb "depends."

"Whether the changes that their management has proposed will be fully implemented" is the object of "on."

If you love jargon, each "whether" above is part of a noun clause. The important thing to note is that those pieces can function the same way any noun can: as the subject of a verb, or as the object of a preposition, etc.

I hope that clears things up!
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