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Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener

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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jul 2017, 04:51
Hi Expert,

I did not understand the meaning of the sentence.

My question is -- How an arm can be replced by an AMINAL overcompensating and growing an extra arm?

My reasoning-- an arm should be replaced by an arm, not by an animal.

Please help
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jul 2017, 06:05
1
AR15J wrote:
Hi Expert,

I did not understand the meaning of the sentence.

My question is -- How an arm can be replced by an AMINAL overcompensating and growing an extra arm?

My reasoning-- an arm should be replaced by an arm, not by an animal.

Please help


Notice the comma before the prepositional phrase modifier "with the animal sometimes overcompensating and..........". With the comma, this modifier (like present participle -ing modifiers) refers to the entire preceding clause and not just the preceding word. Thus in this case the phrase modifier "with the animal sometimes overcompensating and.........." refers NOT to the verb "replaced", but to the entire preceding clause "it is quickly replaced", describing that not just the arm is replaced, but also additional arms are grown.

In absence of the comma your reasoning would be valid (that an arm cannot be replaced with an animal).
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jul 2017, 11:25
1
AR15J wrote:
Hi Expert,

I did not understand the meaning of the sentence.

My question is -- How an arm can be replced by an AMINAL overcompensating and growing an extra arm?

My reasoning-- an arm should be replaced by an arm, not by an animal.

Please help



Hello AR15J,

I will be glad to help you with this one. :)

Let me present to you the original sentence:

Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

Let's now understand the meaning of this sentence.

The sentence talks about starfish. The author of the sentence says that a starfish has some five to eight arms. This creature has a strong ability to regenerate. Then the author presents why he says that a starfish has the great regenerative ability. Whenever a starfish loses an arm, it quickly replaces it by growing another arm. How Sometimes, it even overcompensates and grows an extra one or two arms.

So, it is the starfish that replaces the lost arm by quickly growing another arm or may be two because of its strong regenerative ability.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Nov 2017, 01:21
12
8
So there’s an interesting thing in this question: “starfish” could, in theory, be either singular or plural. (Much like the word “media” or “data” or “deer” or diabetes.) The GMAT has a very consistent habit in these cases: the sentence will always give you some other indication of whether the word is singular or plural.

And in this case? In the non-underlined portion, we have the phrase “Starfish… have a strong regenerative capacity…” So “starfish” is definitely plural, at least in the beginning of the sentence. (And yes, this explanation has been edited to correct my original error. File under: even ninjas write dumb things in the wee hours of the morning.)

Quote:
(A) one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and

Hopefully, the word “it” leaps off the page at you immediately – both of them. Logically, we know that the first “it” needs to refer back to “starfish”, and the second “it” refers back to “arm.” But in its current form, it’s awfully confusing: “it” appears twice in close succession, but the two pronouns refer back to different things? That’s not cool.

And more importantly, “it” can’t refer back to “starfish” anyway, since the beginning of the sentence indicates that “starfish” is plural.

Plus, the meaning of the last part of the underlined portion is funky: the phrase “by the animal overcompensating” suggests that the overcompensation is how the starfish replaces its arm. And that doesn’t actually make sense.

Either way, we can do better than (A).

Quote:
(B) one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and

OK, this “it” looks much better. The word “arm” is the closest potential referent to “it”, so we’re OK here: “… if one arm is lost [the arm] is quickly replaced…” Cool.

I don’t love the use of “with” here, but I can’t see why it’s wrong, exactly. And the meaning makes sense: sometimes, the animal overcompensates and grows an extra arm. That’s kind of creepy from a biological standpoint, but perfectly OK grammatically. “Overcompensating” and “growing” are two parallel actions that are sometimes taken by the animal – and I see no reason why the two actions can’t be parallel.

Let’s keep (B).

Quote:
(C) they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,

The pronouns aren’t horrible here: “it” clearly refers to the arm and “they” presumably refers to starfish. But I think you could make a case that there MIGHT be a pronoun ambiguity issue with “they”, since “arms” is actually the singular noun that’s closest to the pronoun “they.” This isn’t an automatic elimination, since pronoun ambiguity isn’t an absolute rule on the GMAT, but it’s something you should always notice. (More on pronoun ambiguity in this YouTube video.)

But here’s the really important part: the use of “by the animal overcompensating” still doesn’t make any sense (see answer choice A above). The starfish doesn’t replace the arm by overcompensating; it just happens to overcompensate sometimes and grow an extra arm.

Because of the meaning issue, (C) can be eliminated.

Quote:
(D) they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,

Again, we could argue that the first “they” isn’t automatically wrong, even though it’s potentially ambiguous – “they” could again refer to “arms” or “starfish.” But the second “they” is absolute nonsense, since “arm” is a singular noun in this particular chunk of the sentence. So (D) is gone, too.

Quote:
(E) they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,

This is awfully tempting, and I don’t think that there are any DEFINITE reasons to prefer (E) over (B). But there are a bunch of things that make (B) very, very slightly better.

Let’s line this one up with (B) to make it easier to compare them:

    (B) one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
    (E) they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,

So we have three meaningful differences here, and none of them are smoking guns, but all of them seem to point in the same direction.

In that first chunk of the sentence, the big difference is that (E) uses the pronoun “they”, which is potentially ambiguous, since it could refer back to “starfish” or “arms” – and since “arms” is the most recent plural, you could argue that “they” is a legit problem here. Honestly, I’m not completely convinced by this – there are plenty of official SC questions with similar ambiguities in the correct answers. But in this case, the pronoun issue gives me a very slight preference for (B).

Second, we have some funny business with the placement of the word “sometimes.” The thing that “sometimes” happens is “overcompensating”, so it makes sense to have “sometimes” right next to that word. Is it totally wrong to say “sometimes with the animal overcompensating”? Nope. But again, I’d have a very slight preference for (B) based on the placement of “sometimes.”

And the third thing? In (B), “overcompensating” and “growing” are two parallel actions. In other words, the animal sometimes does two things: it overcompensates and grows an extra arm or two. That makes enough sense. In (E), “growing” has been turned into a modifier (“sometimes with the animal overcompensating, growing an extra arm or two”), and I’m not sure that it’s wrong, but it seems a little bit odd to me: when do you ever see an "-ing" participle modifying another "-ing" participle? Meaning-wise, I suppose you could argue that “growing” tells us extra information about when happens when the animal is “overcompensating”, but I think it makes more sense to keep the two actions (“growing” and “overcompensating”) parallel.

Honestly, I don’t think that any of these three issues are crystal-clear, slam-dunk reasons to eliminate (E). If I were seeing this question on an actual exam for the very first time, I’d say a quick prayer to the GMAT gods before picking (B) and moving on -- but at least I'd be comforted by the notion that all three of those little issues point in half-assed unison toward (B).
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 07 Nov 2017, 17:49
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Unless you want to break your head spending precious seconds in the hall, this question requires knowing the use of compound participles and pronoun reference. One need not even look at the question beyond knowing that there is another modifier waiting in the wings and that to be parallel, it should have been compounded with the first modifier by one of the fanboys. C, D, and E, fortunately, on that score, is a three-in-one fall, while A couldn't have muddled up the pronoun reference of 'it' any worse. B is the lonely rider. All in all, an easy meat for the grammar fundamentalist
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Originally posted by daagh on 07 Nov 2017, 06:35.
Last edited by daagh on 07 Nov 2017, 17:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Nov 2017, 00:39
1
GMATNinja wrote:
Quote:


Quote:
(C) they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,

And now we get into an interesting thing here! “Starfish” could, in theory, be either singular or plural. (Much like the word “media” or “data” or “deer”.) The GMAT has a very consistent habit in these cases: the sentence will always give you some other indication of whether the word is singular or plural.

And in this case? Well, the sentence later refers to “starfish” as “the animal” – singular! So “they” shouldn’t be used here.



Can we also take a hint from "Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability" to decide if starfish is singular/plural
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Nov 2017, 10:45
KGump wrote:

Can we also take a hint from "Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability" to decide if starfish is singular/plural

Arg, I just made an a$$ of myself. You’re totally right, KGump. File under: writing QOTD explanations after midnight isn’t my smartest idea.

I edited my explanation above – it should be much less airheaded now. Thank you for catching my mistake!
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Nov 2017, 10:56
Sorry GMATNinja for the late reply. I was ill and couldn't turn on my laptop for a week.
Well coming back to my question, I don't agree with your explanation above. (please correct me if I am wrong anywhere)

My understanding:
Question statement --> Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, havea strong regenerative ability --> states that starfish are PLURAL. So don't understand as to why E is incorrect.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I really don't understand as to how option B is better than E. originally I chose E.
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Nov 2017, 11:01
gmatexam439 wrote:
Sorry GMATNinja for the late reply. I was ill and couldn't turn on my laptop for a week.
Well coming back to my question, I don't agree with your explanation above. (please correct me if I am wrong anywhere)

My understanding:
Question statement --> Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, havea strong regenerative ability --> states that starfish are PLURAL. So don't understand as to why E is incorrect.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I really don't understand as to how option B is better than E. originally I chose E.

Ugh, sorry that you got that sick! You're feeling better, I hope?

And I think you were writing your response just as I wrote the one above. :-) I made a couple of totally boneheaded mistakes in my original explanation! They're fixed above, and I deliberately addressed your question in the new version of the full explanation. Let me know if that doesn't clear up the doubts?
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Nov 2017, 11:23
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GMATNinja wrote:
gmatexam439 wrote:
Sorry GMATNinja for the late reply. I was ill and couldn't turn on my laptop for a week.
Well coming back to my question, I don't agree with your explanation above. (please correct me if I am wrong anywhere)

My understanding:
Question statement --> Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, havea strong regenerative ability --> states that starfish are PLURAL. So don't understand as to why E is incorrect.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I really don't understand as to how option B is better than E. originally I chose E.

Ugh, sorry that you got that sick! You're feeling better, I hope?

And I think you were writing your response just as I wrote the one above. :-) I made a couple of totally boneheaded mistakes in my original explanation! They're fixed above, and I deliberately addressed your question in the new version of the full explanation. Let me know if that doesn't clear up the doubts?


Thank you sensei, I am doing fine now.

Regarding the problem: I think you must have been devoid of a "Banana Choco-Caramel pudding" that I ate today morning, so you lost your focus ;)

Coming back to the explanation above:

"Let’s line this one up with (B) to make it easier to compare them:

(B) one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
(E) they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,

So we have three meaningful differences here, and none of them are smoking guns, but all of them seem to point in the same direction.

In that first chunk of the sentence, the big difference is that (E) uses the pronoun “they”, which is potentially ambiguous, since it could refer back to “starfish” or “arms” – and since “arms” is the most recent plural, you could argue that “they” is a legit problem here. Honestly, I’m not completely convinced by this – there are plenty of official SC questions with similar ambiguities in the correct answers. But in this case, the pronoun issue gives me a very slight preference for (B).

Second, we have some funny business with the placement of the word “sometimes.” The thing that “sometimes” happens is “overcompensating”, so it makes sense to have “sometimes” right next to that word. Is it totally wrong to say “sometimes with the animal overcompensating”? Nope. But again, I’d have a very slight preference for (B) based on the placement of “sometimes.” "

I think the highlighted part isn't making any sense in context to the question.

But "something" really took the ice on the cake. I think this might be a strong reason to go in favour of B. This helped a lot sire.

Thank you for considering this question and for replying patiently to my doubts.
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Nov 2017, 11:48
gmatexam439 wrote:

Regarding the problem: I think you must have been devoid of a "Banana Choco-Caramel pudding" that I ate today morning, so you lost your focus ;)

Yes! Clearly, I was underfed when I made those mistakes. Only seven meals that day... definitely not enough. :idontknow:
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Oct 2018, 21:37
Quote:
(C) they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,

The pronouns aren’t horrible here: “it” clearly refers to the arm and “they” presumably refers to starfish. But I think you could make a case that there MIGHT be a pronoun ambiguity issue with “they”, since “arms” is actually the singular noun that’s closest to the pronoun “they.” This isn’t an automatic elimination, since pronoun ambiguity isn’t an absolute rule on the GMAT, but it’s something you should always notice. (More on pronoun ambiguity in this YouTube video.)

But here’s the really important part: the use of “by the animal overcompensating” still doesn’t make any sense (see answer choice A above). The starfish doesn’t replace the arm by overcompensating; it just happens to overcompensate sometimes and grow an extra arm.

Because of the meaning issue, (C) can be eliminated.
_______________________________________________________________

Just to add up another view

Apart from the meaning error introduced by overcompensating.

they introduce a meaning error too…option C..they loose one arm and they quicky replace…why would they cause themselves to loose and arm and of course arm is not like a spare unit that they quickly replace.

By using the sentence in passive form its best expressed.(where an injury of losing arm is inflicted and it gets replaced..)


Please correct me if I am wrong :-D
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Oct 2018, 13:51
daagh wrote:
The tagging may include SV number agreement, and conjunction, which are also important things tested here. Starfish is treated as plural here as can be seen from the plural verb have in the non-underlined part

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and--- [color=#0000FF]it seems as if the plural starfish is pronouned by the first, singular it; in addition in an active voice sentence, the use of by is improper
[/color]
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and ------- seems ok with the SV problem avoided altogether. Here the it should logically refer to the arm. correct choice

C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating, -----use of by is improper in an active voice setting. It should be with the animal rather than by the animal; overcompensating, growing is improper co-ordination. There should be an and in between

D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,’---use of they means that the starfish themselves are replaced; over compensating should be followed by and

E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating, --- in a passive voice we need to use by rather than with ; in addition overcompensating should be followed by and

you said that we need to use "by" rather than "with" in passive voice, but in choice B, which is correct, "with" is used in passive.
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Nov 2018, 06:50
macjas wrote:
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

(A) one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
(B) one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
(C) they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
(D) they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
(E) they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,


In conditional sentences, isn't the comma necessary?
-If one arm is lost, (then) it is quickly replaced -- I understand that "then" is not necessary, but I thought that comma was necessary.

AjiteshArun , GMATNinja , MagooshExpert , VeritasPrepBrian, GMATGuruNY , VeritasKarishma , DmitryFarber other experts - please enlighten
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Nov 2018, 07:14
Skywalker18 wrote:
macjas wrote:
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

(A) one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
(B) one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
(C) they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
(D) they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
(E) they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,


In conditional sentences, isn't the comma necessary?
-If one arm is lost, (then) it is quickly replaced -- I understand that "then" is not necessary, but I thought that comma was necessary.

AjiteshArun , GMATNinja , MagooshExpert , VeritasPrepBrian, GMATGuruNY , VeritasKarishma , DmitryFarber other experts - please enlighten




Just noticed the comma part.

Even I am confused :) .Experts help!!
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Nov 2018, 18:44
Skywalker18 wrote:
In conditional sentences, isn't the comma necessary?
-If one arm is lost, (then) it is quickly replaced -- I understand that "then" is not necessary, but I thought that comma was necessary.

AjiteshArun , GMATNinja , MagooshExpert , VeritasPrepBrian, GMATGuruNY , VeritasKarishma , DmitryFarber other experts - please enlighten
I would normally expect a comma in if X, Y. Maybe not in this specific case, though. Given the number of commas already present, dropping the comma is perhaps the right call.

However, the larger point here is that the GMAT does not really test commas. Almost all the "rules" that I've seen on this forum are derived from observations of comma usage in correct and incorrect options. This approach is only as reliable as the data set on which it is applied. Every single GMAT question? Great. Only a small set of questions (the ones that have been retired and released to the public)? Iffy.
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Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Nov 2018, 03:28
Skywalker18 wrote:
In conditional sentences, isn't the comma necessary? .


Since the OA does not include a comma, the answer is clear: a comma is NOT necessary.

Please note:
The GMAT is not a test of punctuation.
An answer choice should not be eliminated solely because of the inclusion or omission of a comma.
One exception is an error known as a COMMA SPLICE:
If a comma can be replaced by a period -- implying that the comma is incorrectly serving to connect two independent clauses -- the answer choice is wrong.
Otherwise, do not discard an answer choice for a comma-related reason.
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Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Nov 2018, 08:44
Here is how I went about solving the question,

1) looked at the answer choices
2) noticed the split (a,b) - singular (c,d,e) - plural
3) looked for modifiers given comma
4) got to the underlined section (one arm is lost it quickly replaces it)- this is not right what is quickly replaced or what replaced. (eliminate A)
5) Read through the answers, B - appears to be the best answer given
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Nov 2018, 00:56
BukrsGmat wrote:
Darmody wrote:
thangvietnam wrote:
I fail this question

"overcompensating" and " growing" are not independent actions and the use of "and" is not suitable. A and B are out
the 2 actions are of the same event. comma+doing is used not "and"

I am confused. pls, help


same I crossed B because I thought growing had to modify overcompensate otherwise it does not make sense to have the verb "overcompensate" alone like that. Can somebody explain? And also would it be possible to explain what is exactly is wrong with E? Thx !


Let's Focus on B and E
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.


B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,

1 Usage of sometimes : meaning in E is changed, as if sometimes with the animal
Sometimes should come near what it is modifying...they replace it that results something

2. and should separate two different v-ing modifiers...
when we say IC1 , and IC2 then only it means IC1 and IC2 are independent
but when there is a list with common subject we can simply write sub X and Y
when there is a list with 3 or more in the list we need comma + and => x,y, and Z else X and Y



Thank you for proper explanation, I have one question about 2 different modifires.
in case of "overcompensating and growing" it is clear, but I have faced one question where two ajectives modifing the moun should be saparated by "comma" "," because they modify noun equally. ex: separate, required course.
so I am little confused when we can use "comma" and when "and" between modifiers?
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regener &nbs [#permalink] 10 Nov 2018, 00:56

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