The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's. (A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than (B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than (C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were (D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had (E) extinction, now with numbers five times greater than (E) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than what they were https://www.nytimes.com/1986/01/07/science/science-watch-reduction-of-pesticides-nets-increase-in-bird-populations.html As recently as a decade ago, the scientists noted, bald eagles were sighted in only 39 states. Now their number has increased by 92 percent to 37,000 and the living national symbol, which feeds mainly on fish, can be sighted in every state but Hawaii. The gyrfalcon, an Arctic species that feeds on snowshoe hares and grouse, has survived a close brush with extinction, its numbers rising fivefold since the early 1970's to 500. The number of peregrine falcons, which breed in cities and wilderness areas across the continent, have climbed 19 percent in 14 years to an estimated total of 1,200. But during the same period the population of Harris's hawk, a dweller of the Southwestern deserts, declined 38 percent to 5,600. Watch out - There is a similar but modified version of this question HERE

I think you are on the right track here. Consider the following examples: "In 1970, when bird hunting was very popular, the bird's numbers fell to about 100,000. Now, its numbers are five times greater." - We don't need to say, "... Now it's numbers are five times greater than about 100,000 " or "Now it's numbers are five times greater than when bird hunting was very popular ". It is very clear that we are comparing the current numbers to the 1970 number, so we don't have to repeat those qualifiers. Changing that up a bit, we get the following... "The bird's numbers are now five times greater than when bird hunting was very popular in 1970." - Do we really need the part in brackets? Yes, we are comparing two figures, but, from the context, it is clear that we are comparing the current numbers to some numbers in the past. The part in brackets is not necessary, so we can go with something cleaner and less wordy: "The bird's numbers are now five times greater than when bird hunting was very popular in 1970." - This is pretty much identical to what's in choice (A). We do not need to repeat "the numbers" because it is clear that we are comparing present numbers to past numbers. I hope that helps! The pronoun in (E) isn't really the issue. Check out this post for an explanation of (A) vs (E), and let us know if you still have questions!

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The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with

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31 Oct 2016, 12:27

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daagh

(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than ------ Numbers is countable hence greater than required – correct choice.

(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than – more than in most contexts to denote more volume or mass and to that extent is no- countable So does not go well with numbers . Generally when a plural noun such as numbers, books, pencils, mountains etc is involved, it entails greater than.

(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were---- their is a wrong pronoun

(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had ---- they is a wrong pronoun.

(E) extinction, now with numbers five times greater than --- This is a tricky issue. There is a temptation to allege that the phrase, now with ……. modifies extinction. More importantly, number does not indicate whose numbers it is, which is an Achilles’ heel. However, from whatever dimension, this choice is inferior to Choice A.

I am not sure I understand your explanation correctly. I have seen instances wherein more is used for a countable noun. If not, then I need to start from scratch :oops:

E.g. Peter has 48 pencils fewer than Sally but 16 pencils more than Kevin.

I think some of the V experts can shed more light on usage more than v/s greater than.

Do we prefer more than when we compare between two objects/quantities and greater than when we compare the same quantity over a period of time? :-D

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my confusion is
1) doesn't it sound unidiomatic numbers 5 times greater than ( normally we use 5 times the) I am asking this not in context to this particular question but as a rule in general
2) confused between A and E
Thanks in advance

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daagh

The subject is gyrfalcon, a singular. So their numbers in C and they in D are wrong, not withstanding the grammar of using the comma itself in these cases. In addition five folds are not the same as five times greater. Five folds are 5x (original x + four folds) while five times greater is 6x (original x+ five times). This subtle point adds a significant alteration to the intent.

In E, the intent is altered by using the preposition with, as if the bird of prey has survived the close brush with extinction because of the five fold numbers now. On the contrary the original passage implies that five time greater number is the result of the survival rather than the cause of the survival.

B is dumped for using the inappropriate comparison term more to denote a countable plural subject numbers.

This leaves the original one as the right choice, which uses the correct description greater than for the countable plural subject of numbers.

If somebody claims Answer is E, I am bound to repudiate.

I struggled btwn A and E , I understood why E is wrong. but I still dont understand in A if it ends with "Than" should be completed with some comparison phrase.
((Number greater than when..)) sounds very awkward.

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Hi GMATNinja

Thanks for your detailed explanations here.

As a follow-up, I think a lot of the confusion, including my own, with A vs. E has to do with the literal interpretation of the comparison as mentioned by another user above:
E reads "extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than they were.... Otherwise, it incorrectly compares "its numbers" with "when the use of DDT was sharply restricted."

The thing that helped me understand why this is false is to think of the use "greater". Its quite common to use "greater" alone, but it is uncommon and perhaps incorrect to say x more than (alone) as the comparison is implied in the word, greater, by itself when we use it to compare numbers.

For example: Things are looking great this financial year; our revenue is 5% greater when the GFC hit, but our costs have shrunk by $5.0m from the same period.

I interpreted a literal comparison between the "numbers" and "when", perhaps from reading others' explanations on here, but still my own fault!

Please correct me if i'm wrong.

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Hi GMATNinja

Looking for a bit more clarity on the comparison part of this question.

Quote:

extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than what they were

Looking at option E...would it be correct to say that:

Had the sentence been like " extinction; The numbers of the gyrfalcon are now five times greater than what they were" it was correct.

Thanks

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daagh

Sir i have doubt that does original sentence is comparing numbers with numbers i have that doubt as after greater than we need the numbers please explain and that is why i those option E

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dcummins

I think you are on the right track here. Consider the following examples:

"In 1970, when bird hunting was very popular, the bird's numbers fell to about 100,000. Now, its numbers are five times greater." - We don't need to say, "... Now it's numbers are five times greater than about 100,000" or "Now it's numbers are five times greater than when bird hunting was very popular". It is very clear that we are comparing the current numbers to the 1970 number, so we don't have to repeat those qualifiers. Changing that up a bit, we get the following...
"The bird's numbers are now five times greater than [the numbers] when bird hunting was very popular in 1970." - Do we really need the part in brackets? Yes, we are comparing two figures, but, from the context, it is clear that we are comparing the current numbers to some numbers in the past. The part in brackets is not necessary, so we can go with something cleaner and less wordy:
"The bird's numbers are now five times greater than when bird hunting was very popular in 1970." - This is pretty much identical to what's in choice (A). We do not need to repeat "the numbers" because it is clear that we are comparing present numbers to past numbers.

I hope that helps!

rishabhmishra

Sir i have doubt that does original sentence is comparing numbers with numbers i have that doubt as after greater than we need the numbers please explain and that is why i those option E

gmataaj

Hi GMATNinja

Looking for a bit more clarity on the comparison part of this question.

Quote:

extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than what they were

Looking at option E...would it be correct to say that:

Had the sentence been like " extinction; The numbers of the gyrfalcon are now five times greater than what they were" it was correct.

Thanks

The pronoun in (E) isn't really the issue. Check out this post for an explanation of (A) vs (E), and let us know if you still have questions!

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I have my GMAT in 10 days. I am really concerned about the SC section of VA. What would you recommend me to do in these 10 days to improve my SC section significantly ?

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I have my GMAT in 10 days. I am really concerned about the SC section of VA. What would you recommend me to do in these 10 days to improve my SC section significantly ?

Hi tpatel1997, no strategy or concepts can be drastically altered within the 10 day duration.

So, my suggestion would be to practice as many official questions as possible and intently read expert explanation for each question on GMATClub, to develop a better sense of what kind of errors GMAT SC tests you on.

Good luck for your exam!

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Quote:

The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's.

(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than
(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than
(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were
(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had
(E) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than what they were

Request Expert Reply:
In E, Are 'what they were' and 'when' redundant themselves?

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TheUltimateWinner

Request Expert Reply:
In E, Are 'what they were' and 'when' redundant themselves?

Hi

"What they were" refers to the number of gyrfalcon that were present in a given scenario. "When" refers to the relevant time period that is being referred to ie; "when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's". These two are not redundant and refer to different things.

As has been detailed in earlier posts, (E) is the same as (A) but for the inclusion of "what they were", which is only serving to make the option wordier and does not add any significant meaning. Hence, between the two, (A) is the better choice.

Hope this helps.

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GMATNinja

datatrader

Thank you GMATNinja, but I am positing that A is incorrect (not just more concise). A has an incorrect parallelism issue. It would have to read: "extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than they were.... Otherwise, it incorrectly compares "its numbers" with "when the use of DDT was sharply restricted." Am I reading this incorrectly? Would love souvik101990 to weigh in with the source of this Q and reasoning behind OA. I always find it strange when the data reveals overwhelming support for a "wrong" answer (49% chose E vs. 34% for A).

Sadly, (A) is unambiguously the correct answer. It's an official question, straight from the official GMAT verbal guide. And keep in mind that when you take an actual, adaptive GMAT, the test is trying to find the level of question at which you get roughly half of the questions right -- so if this is a 700-level question, we'd expect close to half of the test-takers who get 700s to get it wrong. And in a broader population, we might expect much more than half to miss a really hard question, unfortunately.

Anyway, here are (A) and (E) again:

Quote:

Let me come at (E) from a different direction this time. Sorry friends, I was a little bit lazy above in basically saying "hey, you really don't need the extra words" in (E). But there's a more technical problem: "what" is trying to act as some sort of pronoun in (E), and I don't think that works. "What" can occasionally be used as a pronoun in a non-question (technically, a relative pronoun if you like jargon), but when it is used as a pronoun, it basically is a singular phrase that means "the things that." So these two sentences would be OK:

"What I did after drinking 17 beers last night was regrettable." --> In other words, "the things that I did last night [were] regrettable." Grammatically, that works fine.
"Mike couldn't believe what he saw on the beach in Chile." --> Mike couldn't believe "the things that he saw" on the beach. That also works fine.

But in (E)? We have "its numbers are now five times greater than the things that they were when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's." And that doesn't quite make sense.

Honestly, I agree with the heart of what some of you are arguing here. If the sentence said "it's numbers are now five times greater than they were when the use of DDT was sharply restricted...", then I'd be happier. That would set up the comparison nicely. But that's not one of our options, and the word "what" turns (E) into a mess.

In (A), the key is that the comparison isn't fundamentally illogical or confusing -- even though I agree that it would be clearer if "they were" were added. We're directly comparing the numbers in two different time periods: "its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's." Logically, that actually makes perfect sense, and the GMAT would argue that there's no need to repeat "they were," because it's clear enough (at least in the GMAT's view) that we're comparing those two time periods. And adding the phrase "what they were" would definitely be wrong in (E), for the reasons I explained above.

To be fair: this one is tricky, and I can't really understand why the GMAT thinks it's important to test these concepts. But (A) is unambiguously correct, sadly.

I hope this helps!

Hi GMATNinja AndrewN

While i agree to the explanation above, there is some sense of ambiguity with option A. In option A, it appears that we are comparing numbers with time, since the part after than begins with "When". When typically denotes time.
In general, when do we know that concision is correct and when do we know that concision is causing ambuguity.

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AndrewN

shanks2020

Hello, shanks2020. I could not have written a more thorough and on-point reply than the one GMATGuruNY has supplied above. I particularly enjoy the inclusion of official examples in that post to make a point. To add something to this dialogue, I wrote a post just recently (albeit to a Princeton Review question) in which I suggested, not for the first time, that someone consider the whole sentence before allowing a certain split to be decided on the basis of conciseness. I cannot emphasize that point enough. When paired with seeking to disprove the worst answers first, you can get pretty strong at SC in no time. (Just play the probabilities that a certain answer choice is more incorrect than another.)

Thank you for thinking to ask me.

- Andrew

Hi GMATGuruNY

Really nice explanation!
And do you think option E has any other error, apart from concision when compared with option A and use of "what" as mentioned by GMATNINJA?
I dont think i will ever be able to see "what" in exam the way GMATNINJA has explained...

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GMATGuruNY

shanks2020

The posted version of this SC does not reflect the official version found in my copies of the Verbal Review.
In the Verbal Review 2nd edition, the 2017 Verbal Review, and the 2018 Verbal Review, option E does NOT include the usage of what.
See the screenshot below:

Unless someone can provide a screenshot of the version posted here by the OP, do not worry about this version.
It seems unlikely that the GMAT would make us choose between options A and E.
Both answers seem viable, especially in light of the following OA in GMATPrep:
In the 1980’s the rate of increase of the minority population of the United States was nearly twice what it was in the 1970’s.
As this OA illustrates, the construction in blue is considered correct.

HiGMATGuruNY

Thanks for posting the correct version.
To confirm, E is incorrect because it appears that gryfalcon has survived extinction now "WITH" numbers greater. It appears as if it is taking the help of "numbers"...Is my reasong correct?
Or any other reason for option E to be incorrect, per your version.

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shanks2020

_______________
Edited. Thank you!

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GMATGuruNY

shanks2020

[To confirm, E is incorrect because it appears that gryfalcon has survived extinction now "WITH" numbers greater. It appears as if it is taking the help of "numbers"...Is my reasong correct

This line of reasoning is valid -- nice work!

Quote:

ny other reason for option E to be incorrect, per your version

OA: Its numbers are now five times greater than [its numbers were] when the use of DDT was sharply restricted.
Here, the clause in green is an ADVERB serving to modify the implied very in blue.

E: numbers greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted
Here, it is unclear what is being modified by the clause in red.
As a result, E seems to convey that the NOUN IN BLUE is greater than the MODIFIER IN RED -- an illogical comparison.

Hi GMATGuruNY

In the below official GMAT PREP question:

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

(B) movies—fewer than have been

Here, also after than, there is no clear subject which has been used before.
Like in the question discussed above, "its numbers were" was used before and hence we could imply it after than.
But in this question, it seems that some subject is missing after than.
Can you please explain.

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Am I missing something here? A, B, and E all compare 'the numbers of the gyrfalcon' to a time as indicated by the presence of the relative modifier 'when'. You can't compare the numbers of the bird with a time...

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CEdward

Hi CEdward

(A) and (B) do not compare numbers to a point or period of time. Let us read (A) again:

The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's.

The sentence is comparing the numbers at a point in time ("now") to the numbers at another point in time ("when..."). The portion of the clause stating "its numbers" is common to both "now" and "when". It is not correct to consider the numbers only for the "now" portion and not for the "when" portion.

The current version of option (E) does indeed compare numbers to a point in time and is hence incorrect. This was not the case with the earlier version of option (E).

Hope this clarifies.

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the only quibble is "times greater than".
I have presumed that if we represent quantity by multiplication, then "TIMES" binded with "AS" ... "AS" ought to be utilized.

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Can you help with PRESENT option E? EducationAisle

Here "Now" seems to clearly compare with time period "1975". I don't see run on as well.

Can we invert the Part A of sentence with Part B for understanding run on in following manner?

>> Now with numbers five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's, The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction.