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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
when do we use the verb 'to be'

is there a specific meaning attached to it. For e.g sense of order/rule

e.g - 'you have to be ready by 10. : looks like am ordering someone.
Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
Quote:
According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat from wild animals and meat from domesticated animals, wild animals have less total fat than do livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat they think is good for cardiac health.

(A) wild animals have less total fat than do livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat they think is
(B) wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat thought to be
(C) wild animals have less total fat than that of livestock fed on grain and have more fat of a kind thought to be
(D) total fat of wild animals is less than livestock fed on grain and they have more fat of a kind thought to be
(E) total fat is less in wild animals than that of livestock fed on grain and more of their fat is of a kind they think is


Correct choice: B

In B, '' wild animals have less total fat THAN wild animals have livestock fed ....''
In D, ''total fat of wild animals is less than livestock fed''---> This one talks about ''wild animal's total fat'' not ''wild animal's livestock''!. So, this one is wrong. Can I cross out choice D by this way RonTargetTestPrep, MartyTargetTestPrep, GMATNinja?
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
After reading through some responses, I was hoping someone could help me with a pattern that I see in the *X more/adjective+er than Y* type of comparison.
1) In C, since the have less total fat is part of a *core comparison phrase* for the lack of better words, is it automatically wrong to have the second element in Y to use any kind of pronoun, such as that, to reference back to fat?
basically the comparable parts must be wild animals ( before the main verb) and whatever Y element that is compared right after the *than*. hope I am not confusing anyone. this insight came from mgmat navigation.

2) I am a little confused between this problem and the explanation of the one below, specifically, choice D.
I would have thought whatever plural antecedent that comes in the core comparison *was more apparent in Norway* cannot be logically referenced anyway to make meaningful comparison, see explanation below.
comparison that adds pronoun that of always make me second guess myself.
Striping off the modifiers to see the items that are compared is not an easy concept to apply on omitted comparison question.

https://gmatclub.com/forum/in-1997-the- ... 17632.html
(D) The pronoun those in the second part of the comparison has no antecedent. In fact, there is no plural noun at all in the first part of the comparison (“more apparent in Norway”)....

GMATNinja MartyTargetTestPrep egmat RonTargetTestPrep and whoever else could help.
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According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
Expert Reply
M838TE wrote:
After reading through some responses, I was hoping someone could help me with a pattern that I see in the *X more/adjective+er than Y* type of comparison.
1) In C, since the have less total fat is part of a *core comparison phrase* for the lack of better words, is it automatically wrong to have the second element in Y to use any kind of pronoun, such as that, to reference back to fat?
basically the comparable parts must be wild animals ( before the main verb) and whatever Y element that is compared right after the *than*. hope I am not confusing anyone. this insight came from mgmat navigation.

2) I am a little confused between this problem and the explanation of the one below, specifically, choice D.
I would have thought whatever plural antecedent that comes in the core comparison *was more apparent in Norway* cannot be logically referenced anyway to make meaningful comparison, see explanation below.
comparison that adds pronoun that of always make me second guess myself.
Striping off the modifiers to see the items that are compared is not an easy concept to apply on omitted comparison question.

https://gmatclub.com/forum/in-1997-the- ... 17632.html
(D) The pronoun those in the second part of the comparison has no antecedent. In fact, there is no plural noun at all in the first part of the comparison (“more apparent in Norway”)....


Hey M838TE

Thank you for your question.

It appears you're finding it hard to wrap your head around Ellipsis in Comparison. Please read this article to get a better grasp on comparisons and understand what goes where.

After that, please read this response by Shraddha. It explains why "that" is wrong in answer choice C.

If you still have questions after doing the above, please revert. I'll be happy to assist further.

Happy Learning!

Abhishek
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
kokusanhin wrote:
According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat from wild animals and meat from domesticated animals, wild animals have less total fat than do livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat they think is good for cardiac health.


(A) wild animals have less total fat than do livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat they think is

(B) wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat thought to be

(C) wild animals have less total fat than that of livestock fed on grain and have more fat of a kind thought to be

(D) total fat of wild animals is less than livestock fed on grain and they have more fat of a kind thought to be

(E) total fat is less in wild animals than that of livestock fed on grain and more of their fat is of a kind they think is


According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat from wild animals and meat from domesticated animals, wild animals have less total fat than do livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat they think is good for cardiac health.

wild animals have less fat than do livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat they think is good.

'they' refers to whom? wild animals? scientists? -> A & E out


(B) wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat thought to be
(C) wild animals have less total fat than that of livestock fed on grain and have more fat of a kind thought to be

B & C both are parallel.

Simplifying these three options even more:

(D) fat of wild animals is less than livestock fed on grain and they have more fat of a kind thought to be.

d -> should have been "fat of wild animals is less than the fat of livestock." we can use "that" in place of fat.

(B) wild animals have less fat than livestock.
(C) wild animals have less fat than that of livestock

wild animals have less fat than fat of livestock -> incorrect way to use "less A than B"
wild animals have less fat than livestock -> correct.

B is answer
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
Hi EMPOWERgmatVerbal could you please share your breakdown of this solution?
To be more specific, stating below the reasons for my POE, despite arriving at B. (option B also confused me, fyi)
(A) "they" reference is ambiguous and can refer back to livestock fed on grains wild animals - eliminated
(B) "Wild animals have less total fat than livestock.." - Here I keep thinking that the wild animals' fat is being compared to the livestock. Where am I going wrong?
(C) The first part seemed correct to me (felt "than that of" referred to the fat of livestock) but the second part, "kind of fat thought to be" seemed wordy - eliminated.
(D) Clear comparison issue of fat with livestock - eliminated
(E) The use of "their" and "they" is ambiguous - eliminated

GMATNinja would love to get your review of this POE as well.

Thanks in advance!
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
Quote:
(A) "they" reference is ambiguous and can refer back to livestock fed on grains wild animals - eliminated


THEY would want to refer to people (i.e. scientists) - but there are no people mentioned in answer choice (A).

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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
Expert Reply
Ritwickhota wrote:
Hi EMPOWERgmatVerbal could you please share your breakdown of this solution?
To be more specific, stating below the reasons for my POE, despite arriving at B. (option B also confused me, fyi)
(A) "they" reference is ambiguous and can refer back to livestock fed on grains wild animals - eliminated
(B) "Wild animals have less total fat than livestock.." - Here I keep thinking that the wild animals' fat is being compared to the livestock. Where am I going wrong?
(C) The first part seemed correct to me (felt "than that of" referred to the fat of livestock) but the second part, "kind of fat thought to be" seemed wordy - eliminated.
(D) Clear comparison issue of fat with livestock - eliminated
(E) The use of "their" and "they" is ambiguous - eliminated

Thanks in advance!



Hi Ritwickhota,

Your elimination process is largely spot-on. Let's take a closer look at the specific issues you raised regarding options (B) and (C):

(B) wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat thought to be

The confusion you're facing with this option is quite common when dealing with comparative structures. You're seeing "wild animals have less total fat than livestock..." and it seems like it's comparing "the wild animals' fat" to "livestock". But let's zoom out for a second. The sentence isn't trying to compare 'fat' with 'livestock', rather it's comparing the properties of two different groups, namely, wild animals and livestock fed on grain. So, if we put it in simpler terms, the sentence is saying: Wild animals have less of Property X and more of Property Y when compared to livestock fed on grain. The sentence structure is absolutely fine here. We're dealing with an elliptical comparison (a form where some words are omitted but understood). The implied comparison is: "wild animals have less total fat than [what] livestock fed on grain [have]."

(C) wild animals have less total fat than that of livestock fed on grain and have more fat of a kind thought to be

Your intuition on this option is correct. It starts off with a faulty comparison. The sentence compares "wild animals" to "that of livestock fed on grain". The pronoun "that" is unclear - does it refer to livestock, grain, or something else? Also, "kind of fat thought to be" might sound wordy, but it's more of a passive construction and in itself doesn't disqualify an option.

Therefore, your process of elimination is sound, and (B) is indeed the correct answer. It's an example of a tricky comparison issue that the GMAT might throw at you. But now that you've seen it here and understood the mechanism, you'll be better equipped to deal with such questions on the test.

And here's the permalink to the full breakdown as well:
https://gmatclub.com/forum/according-to ... l#p2247520

Keep at it!
Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
Quote:
According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat from wild animals and meat from domesticated animals, wild animals have less total fat than do livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat they think is good for cardiac health.

(A) wild animals have less total fat than do livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat they think is
(B) wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat thought to be
(C) wild animals have less total fat than that of livestock fed on grain and have more fat of a kind thought to be
(D) total fat of wild animals is less than livestock fed on grain and they have more fat of a kind thought to be
(E) total fat is less in wild animals than that of livestock fed on grain and more of their fat is of a kind they think is

Hi experts,
In B, which items are compared, actually?
wild animals with livestock?
wild animals with wild animals?
total fat with livestock?
Thanks__
Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
GMATNinja wrote:
zoezhuyan wrote:
egmat wrote:
Hello JAIN09,

I apologize for getting back to this post so late.

A. wild animals have less total fat than do livestock
B. wild animals have less total fat than livestock



Both these structures correctly present the intended comparison. The only two logical entities that can be compared in these structures are wild animals and livestock.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha

Hi Shraddha
would you please elaborate further about the sentence B.
I think i must miss something, because i thought sentence B is ambiguous.
there are two ways to understand it
#1wild animals have less total fat than livestock [/i] have
#2 wild animals have less total fat than livestock [/i]

Please,
Waiting for your reply

Thanks in advance

Have a lovely day
>_~

Good question! It might be helpful to look at an instance of genuine ambiguity to see why the above example is different.

    I like math more than my wife.

There's two legitimate ways to interpret this sentence, one of which would be very unfortunate for the health of my marriage. :?

    1) I like math more than my wife [likes math].
    2) I like math more than [I like] my wife.

Both make sense, and because there's no way for the reader to determine what the writer meant, the GMAT wouldn't have this construction in a correct answer.

Now consider the construction in the correct answer:

    "...wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain"

This isn't ambiguous. It clearly means that wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain [do.]

The alternative would be that wild animals have less total fat than [they have] livestock fed on grain. No sensible reader would think that animals have livestock, or that it would be logical to compare the amount of fat an animal has to the number of livestock it possesses. So unlike the previous example, there's no real ambiguity here.

More importantly, the other four answer choices all have DEFINITE errors. We're never making our selection in a vacuum. We just want the best of the bunch.

I hope this helps!

Quote:
This isn't ambiguous. It clearly means that wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain [do.]

GMATNinja
Hello Sir,
The more readable sentence would be like below..
wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain [HAS.]
right?
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