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Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global

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Re: Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global  [#permalink]

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New post 23 Apr 2020, 02:07
Abhishekrao12 wrote:
egmat

This is a question regarding the non underlined part of the sentence. This is for my understanding of the concepts.

According to the verb-ed modifier concept explained in your blogs, Verb-ed modifier cannot modify the previous clause and take the subject of the previous clause as its subject. So convinced which is a verb - ed modifier must modify the preceding noun global investors.

But in the above question convinced must actually be modifying the many stock traders which happens to be the subject of the preceding clause.

How is this usage justified ?Please shed some light on this issue


"convinced that ..." is adverbial modifying the previous clause and refering to the subject "stock traders". this phrase here is similar to doing phrase. consider.

I learn gmat, making my thinking better.

making is adverbial and refers to "I".

the fact that "conviced that " can not logically refer to "investors" . and "convinced that ..." is far from the subject "traders" support the conclusion that it is adverbial

so, do-ed phrase can be similar to doing phrase, in that it is adverbial referring to the subject of the main clause.

if we write ' because the traders are convinced that ....". so, the meaning role of "convinced that ..." is representation of cause.

answering this problem dose not require knowing the role of "convinced that ....". but in many other problems in gmatprep, we need to know the role of this phrase to answer the questions.
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Re: Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global  [#permalink]

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New post 01 May 2020, 16:07
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Ujaswin wrote:
GMATNinja can you please advise the right way to eliminate the incorrect answer choices. I was stuck between A & D.

I'm very late to the party, but since the question was very much addressed to us, I'll take a stab, just in case it helps somebody out there.

Here's the full sentence using choice (D):

Quote:
(D) Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global investors, convinced that limiting their investments to the U.S. stock market, which, though certainly home to the stocks of some of the world’s great corporations, restricted their gains.

Stripping out the clause beginning with "thought certainly home...", we're left with:

    "Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global investors, convinced that limiting their investments to the U.S. stock market, which restricted their gains."

Well, the first problem is that it's not entirely clear what's being modified by the "which..." clause. Does it modify "U.S. stock market"? Investments? Limiting? The last one (limiting) seems to make the most sense - what is the thing that "restricted their gains"? LIMITING their investments to the U.S. stock market.

Okay, fine... MAYBE the "which" clause is okay here - "limiting" functions as a noun, and "which..." is a noun modifier.

But if we strip out the "which" clause, we are left with:

    "Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global investors, convinced that limiting their investments to the U.S. stock market."

Notice that there is no verb for "limiting"!

The following examples might make that more clear:

  • "Riding on my motorcycle is fun." - No problem. "Riding" is the subject, and "is" is the verb.
  • "Riding on my motorcycle, which was manufactured in Japan, is fun." - Again, no problem. The only difference is that we've added a noun modifier ("which...") to modify "motorcycle".
  • "Riding on my motorcycle, which was manufactured in Japan." - No good! The "which" clause has its own verb ("was manufactured"), but there is no main verb for the subject of the sentence ("Riding"). If we strip out the "which" clause, we are left with, "Riding on my motorcycle." That's clearly not a sentence.

Back to choice (D), we have a similar problem. The subject of the "that..." clause is "limiting", and "limiting" needs a verb to go with it. The verb "restricted" belongs to the "which..." clause, and we never actually get a verb to pair with "limiting".

Choice (A) avoids that problem:

Quote:
(A) Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global investors, convinced that limiting their investments to the U.S. stock market, even though it is certainly home to the stocks of some of the world’s great corporations, restricted their gains.

What are many stock traders convinced of? They are convinced that LIMITING {...} restricted their gains.

I hope that helps!
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Re: Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global  [#permalink]

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New post 06 May 2020, 23:38
GMATninja Could you please help, in this . Also, IS the construction ,which, always incorrect as it doesnot have a verb?
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Re: Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global  [#permalink]

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New post 08 May 2020, 12:08
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yatindra20 wrote:
GMATninja Could you please help, in this . Also, IS the construction ,which, always incorrect as it doesnot have a verb?

There is nothing inherently wrong with using a comma before and after a "which". For example:

"I have a Honda motorcycle, which, despite the brand's reputation for reliability, needs repairs every few months."

If you are struggling with A vs D, check out this post. And if you still have questions, please let us know what's giving you trouble!
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Re: Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global  [#permalink]

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New post 25 May 2020, 14:34
GMATNinja wrote:
yatindra20 wrote:
GMATninja Could you please help, in this . Also, IS the construction ,which, always incorrect as it doesnot have a verb?

There is nothing inherently wrong with using a comma before and after a "which". For example:

"I have a Honda motorcycle, which, despite the brand's reputation for reliability, needs repairs every few months."

If you are struggling with A vs D, check out this post. And if you still have questions, please let us know what's giving you trouble!

GMATNinja
Thanks for the nice example. +1 for you.
In your example:
GMATNinja wrote:
"I have a Honda motorcycle, which, despite the brand's reputation for reliability, needs repairs every few months."

in this example, 'which' and 'despite the brand's reputation for reliability' refer back to 'Honda motorcycle'. So, it's fine.
Sir, i have a what if scenario for this example.
"I have a Honda motorcycle in USA, which, though certainly has 1,143,156 active cases for COVID-19 right away, needs repairs every few months."
^^ in this example, 'though certainly has 1,143,156 active cases for COVID-19 right away' refers to 'USA', but 'which' technically refers to 'Honda motorcycle' because the sentence "I have a Honda motorcycle, which needs repairs every few months." definitely makes sense.
So, is my above sentence right?
Thanks__
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Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global  [#permalink]

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New post 25 May 2020, 14:44
chetan2u wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global investors, convinced that limiting their investments to the U.S. stock market, even though it is certainly home to the stocks of some of the world’s great corporations, restricted their gains.

A. even though it is certainly
B. which, while it is certainly
C. despite that that market is certainly
D. which, though certainly
E. although, certainly as


SC24321.01
OG2020 NEW QUESTION


Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global investors, convinced that limiting their investments to the U.S. stock market, even though it is certainly home to the stocks of some of the world's great corporations, restricted their gains.

the underlined portion is a DEPENDENT clause and should be talking of the US stock markets.
Secondly, we are talking of not limiting to US markets and then talk of some positive aspect of US market. So a bit of contrast required. Even though and although are correct




(B) which, while it is certainly
the construction is not proper. Which is a relative clause but is not proper here.
The COMMA after which makes it a run on sentence.



Hi chetan2u
Hope you are well in this pandemic!
Could you clarify how choice B makes the sentence run-on? I did not find anything like run-on in choice B.
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Re: Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global  [#permalink]

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New post 31 May 2020, 13:11
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Asad wrote:
GMATNinja wrote:
yatindra20 wrote:
GMATninja Could you please help, in this . Also, IS the construction ,which, always incorrect as it doesnot have a verb?

There is nothing inherently wrong with using a comma before and after a "which". For example:

"I have a Honda motorcycle, which, despite the brand's reputation for reliability, needs repairs every few months."

If you are struggling with A vs D, check out this post. And if you still have questions, please let us know what's giving you trouble!

GMATNinja
Thanks for the nice example. +1 for you.
In your example:
GMATNinja wrote:
"I have a Honda motorcycle, which, despite the brand's reputation for reliability, needs repairs every few months."

in this example, 'which' and 'despite the brand's reputation for reliability' refer back to 'Honda motorcycle'. So, it's fine.
Sir, i have a what if scenario for this example.
"I have a Honda motorcycle in USA, which, though certainly has 1,143,156 active cases for COVID-19 right away, needs repairs every few months."
^^ in this example, 'though certainly has 1,143,156 active cases for COVID-19 right away' refers to 'USA', but 'which' technically refers to 'Honda motorcycle' because the sentence "I have a Honda motorcycle, which needs repairs every few months." definitely makes sense.
So, is my above sentence right?
Thanks__

I don't think you can get away with something like this, unfortunately. We'd expect the "though___" part and the "which" clause to describe the same thing. As written, it seems as though the USA needs repairs. Or that the motorcycle has cases of COVID-19. Neither interpretation makes sense.

It would be a bit better to do something like this: "I have a Honda motorcycle in the USA, which, although the USA has plenty of motorcycle shops, is difficult to maintain." Now it's clear that the USA, not the motorcycle, HAS plenty of motorcycle shops.

Please note that it is rarely a good idea to waste time and energy analyzing made-up or tweaked versions of the answer choices. On the GMAT, your job is to select the BEST answer choice out of the five available options. Looking at a single sentence in a bubble and trying to determine whether it's "correct" or "incorrect" based on grammar "rules" is an entirely different job -- one that you'll never have to do on the GMAT.

I hope that helps!
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Re: Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Jun 2020, 00:34
1. xxx...convinced that limiting their investments to the U.S. stock market, even though it is certainly home to the stocks of some of the world’s great corporations, (IT IS xxx= clause form after comma)

2. xxx convinced that limiting their investments to the U.S. stock market, which though certainly certainly home to the stocks of some of the world’s great corporations, (i. removed comma that made the sentence incorrect ; ii. not clause after which But just a phrase)

My question:
After relative pronoun which /that , whether it necessary to have verb or it can be simple phrase as per above examples)
both are correct or still 1st option?
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Re: Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Jun 2020, 02:21
chetan2u wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global investors, convinced that limiting their investments to the U.S. stock market, even though it is certainly home to the stocks of some of the world’s great corporations, restricted their gains.

A. even though it is certainly
B. which, while it is certainly
C. despite that that market is certainly
D. which, though certainly
E. although, certainly as


SC24321.01
OG2020 NEW QUESTION


Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global investors, convinced that limiting their investments to the U.S. stock market, even though it is certainly home to the stocks of some of the world's great corporations, restricted their gains.

the underlined portion is a DEPENDENT clause and should be talking of the US stock markets.
Secondly, we are talking of not limiting to US markets and then talk of some positive aspect of US market. So a bit of contrast required. Even though and although are correct


(A) even though it is certainly
Even though is correctly used - Even though+subject+verb. The dependent clause is properly framed, and the pronoun IT correctly refers back to singular MARKET.
Correct


(B) which, while it is certainly
the construction is not proper. Which is a relative clause but is not proper here.
The COMMA after which makes it a run on sentence.


(C) despite that that market is certainly
the usage of despite is not correct.
Firstly despite should generally be followed by a pronoun or noun.
The meaning conveyed is illogical. What we meant is that even though the US markets are home to best of companies, the traders are looking towards other markets too. The message conveyed now is ' despite 'the traders moving to other markets ', the us markets are home to ...


(D) which, though certainly
Same as B

(E) although, certainly as
Comma after although is wrong. AS is not correct

A



Hi,

Your reasoning for eliminating option B and D is not correct...

Option B and D are not run on..

It's because which is modifying the US stock markets, option B and D are eliminated.

Hence creating a meaning error....

Posted from my mobile device
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Re: Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jun 2020, 13:44
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itsSKR wrote:
1. xxx...convinced that limiting their investments to the U.S. stock market, even though it is certainly home to the stocks of some of the world’s great corporations, (IT IS xxx= clause form after comma)

2. xxx convinced that limiting their investments to the U.S. stock market, which though certainly certainly home to the stocks of some of the world’s great corporations, (i. removed comma that made the sentence incorrect ; ii. not clause after which But just a phrase)

My question:
After relative pronoun which /that , whether it necessary to have verb or it can be simple phrase as per above examples)
both are correct or still 1st option?
@ExpertsGlobal5@GMATNinja@egmat

I'm not 100% sure I understand your question, but if you're asking whether "that" can be followed by either a verb or a clause, the answer is yes.

For example:

    Tim foolishly dismantled the smoke detector that was making an annoying screaming sound at night.

Here "that" is a describing the "smoke detector," and is followed by a verb. That's fine.

But we could also write:

    Tim believes that sleep is more important than knowing when his house is on fire.

Here, "that" is introducing a full clause and is followed by a subject and a verb. Perfectly acceptable.

The main difference is the role "that" is playing. In the first sentence, it's describing a noun (or functioning as a relative pronoun, if you like jargon). In the second, it's introducing a clause (functioning as a subordinating conjunction, if you REALLY like the jargon).

But the terminology isn't important. What's important is that you likely understood what "that" was doing in each case, and that each sentence made sense. (Grammatically speaking. Tim's behavior defies explanation. :? )

In the example you cited, the incorrect answers are wrong because they're illogical, not because "that" is used inappropriately.

The takeaway: anytime you find yourself asking if a certain construction is allowed in an SC question, you might be doing yourself a disservice. Once you've internalized the very tiny number of ironclad grammar rules that appear on the GMAT, you'll want to rely on logic, clarity, and context.

I hope that helps!
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Beginners' guides to GMAT verbal: RC | CR | SC

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SC articles & resources: How to go from great (760) to incredible (780) on GMAT SC | That "-ing" Word Probably Isn't a Verb | That "-ed" Word Might Not Be a Verb, Either | No-BS Guide to GMAT Idioms | "Being" is not the enemy | WTF is "that" doing in my sentence?

RC, CR, and other articles & resources: All GMAT Ninja articles on GMAT Club | Using LSAT for GMAT CR & RC |7 reasons why your actual GMAT scores don't match your practice test scores | How to get 4 additional "fake" GMAT Prep tests for $29.99 | Time management on verbal

SC & CR Questions of the Day (QOTDs), featuring expert explanations: All QOTDs | Subscribe via email | RSS

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Re: Many stock traders in the United States have set out to become global   [#permalink] 20 Jun 2020, 13:44

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