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Re: Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Vietnam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.

(A) Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers ( comparison is B/w s.world war and Vietnam returnees, incorrect)
(B) soldier coming home after the Second World War on long voyages aboard troopships who had (who refers to the troopship rather than soldier)
(C) soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyage home aboard a troopship gave him (him incorrectly refers to soldiers)
(D) troopships on long voyages home after the Second World War which gave the soldier ( comparison is between troopships and Vietnam returnees)
(E) soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyages home aboard troopships gave them(correct, comparison is between soldiers of the second world war and Vietnam returnees)

Will go with choice E

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Re: Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
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Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Vietnam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.

Mostly a question of wrong comparisons


(A) Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers a --- 1, wrong comparison between a war and soldiers. 2. a War is an event. 'when' is not an appropriate adverb to refer to it .


(B) soldier coming home after the Second World War on long voyages aboard troopships who had --- 1. Use of the singular solder to compare Vietnam returnees is incongruous. 2. troopships are not humans to be referred by 'who'

(C) soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyage home aboard a troopship gave him --- Soldiers and him -- pronoun mismatch


(D) troopships on long voyages home after the Second World War which gave the soldier -- comparison of troopships with the Vietnam returnees is wrong

(E) soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyages home aboard troopships gave the --- Correct comparison and choice
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Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
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aragonn wrote:
Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Vietnam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.

(A) Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers
(B) soldier coming home after the Second World War on long voyages aboard troopships who had
(C) soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyage home aboard a troopship gave him
(D) troopships on long voyages home after the Second World War which gave the soldier
(E) soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyages home aboard troopships gave them


TIME magazine (April 23, 1979 | Vol. 113 No. 17)
Nation: Heroes Without Honor Face the Battle at Home LINK
Monday, Apr. 23, 1979


Psychologist Figley feels the trend toward dealing more openly with the war will be good for the disaffected veterans. After World War II, the long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them. Viet Nam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups. What is more, they came home to a society that was not anxious to hear about their traumas. Says Veteran Bill De Bruler: "After exchanging experiences, you feel cleansed in an odd way and you forget for a while that what you did was all for naught."
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Re: Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
[you-tube][/you-tube]
aragonn wrote:

Project SC Butler: Day 14: Sentence Correction (SC1)


For SC butler Questions Click Here


Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Vietnam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.

(A) Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers
(B) soldier coming home after the Second World War on long voyages aboard troopships who had
(C) soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyage home aboard a troopship gave him
(D) troopships on long voyages home after the Second World War which gave the soldier
(E) soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyages home aboard troopships gave them

The best/excellent answers get kudos, which will be awarded after the answer is revealed.
There may be no best/excellent answers, or a there may be a few excellent answers!


Here we need to make the clause after the word unlike parallel to "Vietnam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups"
Vietnem returnees are parallel to soldiers of the second world war, hence options A and D can be neglected.
In Option B the tense of coming home is wrong as everything in the sentence in in past tense.
Option C is wrong because of the pronoun him doesnt match with the plural noun, soldiers.
All these errors are corrected in option E, hence ans is E.
Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
MikeScarn wrote:
(D) troopships on long voyages home after the Second World War which gave the soldier
1. Definitely a run-on sentence.

Hi MikeScarn,
We need a COMMA before WHICH in GMAT otherwise the sentence will be considered as faulty. In this sentence, WHICH doesn't make the sentence independent clause for using the word "unlike", I think ! I mean, both part doesn't make the sentence (combined) run-on.
This one is my personal conviction.
Thanks__

Originally posted by TheUltimateWinner on 26 Nov 2018, 01:48.
Last edited by TheUltimateWinner on 26 Nov 2018, 02:07, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
daagh wrote:
Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Vietnam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.

(B) soldier coming home after the Second World War on long voyages aboard troopships who had --- [color=#0000ff]1. Use of the singular solder to compare Vietnam returnees is incongruous.


Hi daagh,
I have a curiosity in your explanation.
In B, does it matter that "comparable things (soldier, returnees) must be in same number?" I mean-if "soldier" is used as singular, then "returnee" must be used as "singular" and If "soldier" is used as plural, then "returnee" must be used as plural?
Thanks_
Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
aragonn wrote:

Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Vietnam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.

(A) Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers
(B) soldier coming home after the Second World War on long voyages aboard troopships who had
(C) soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyage home aboard a troopship gave him
(D) troopships on long voyages home after the Second World War which gave the soldier
(E) soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyages home aboard troopships gave them

Official Explanation:


The sentence with choice A wrongly compares Vietnam returnees with the Second World War. In choice B, the singular soldier does not agree in number with the plural returnees; also, B is awkward because the pronoun who is so far from its noun referent, soldier, that it seems to modify troopships, the nearest noun. Choice C correctly compares soldiers with returnees, but the singular him does not agree with the plural soldiers. In choice D, returnees are compared with troopships, which illogically refers to the Second World War, and soldier is singular rather than plural. Choice E is the best answer: the comparison is logical, the nouns and pronouns agree in number, and the pronoun references are clear.


Hi all of my honorable expert,
I've a question on highlighted part.

Hi aragonn,
I've read the official explanation. In this explanation, it is said that "In choice B, the singular soldier does not agree in number with the plural returnees".
My questions to my honorable expert:
Q1: Does it matter that "comparable things (soldier, returnees) must be in same number?" I mean-if "soldier" is used as singular, then "returnee" must be used as "singular" and If "soldier" is used as plural, then "returnee" must be used as plural?
Q2: How will someone be convinced that "Vietnam returnees" are the soldiers?

EDITED:
In Q2, if "Vietnam returnees" are replaced with "Indian returnees", then does it make sense? If I replace "Vietnam returnees" with "Indian returnees", there will be no problem in grammar structure in the newly edited sentence, but the historical background will be changed, may be.
So,........
Original Sentence:
Unlike the soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyages home aboard troopships gave them a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Vietnam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.
--> History says: "Vietnam returnees" are soldiers, I guess (though I have no idea about history!). So, if the "Vietnam returnees" are kind of "soldiers", then the BOLD parts make sense.

Now editing the original sentence by replacing with "Indian returnees".

Edited sentence: (can we be far away from history for some moment:) ?)

Unlike the soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyages home aboard troopships gave them a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Indian returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.
--> Does it make sense? I mean: how do someone convinced that this "Indian returnees" are kind of "soldiers"? Can be "Vietnam returnees" something like "Indian refugees", isn't it? If this is the case, how "Soldiers" and "Indian returnees" are parallel each other in bold parts?


In short, how will someone be convinced that 'soldiers' equals to 'Vietnam returnees' (for parallelism)?

Originally posted by TheUltimateWinner on 26 Nov 2018, 02:02.
Last edited by TheUltimateWinner on 26 Nov 2018, 12:50, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
Quote:
There are 2 basic rules related to comparisons that you need to keep in mind for the GMAT SC: Rule 1: Compared items must be logically similar. Rule 2: Compared items must be grammatically similar.


Well yes, number must match, but meaning should also match. I dont have the link but there is a question in which rpm of engine was compared with rpms of tire. All I am saying is you should take a look on the meaning of the sentence. Always try to find out what is compared with what. That is the right way to solve these questions.

I am not sure what you are asking in 2nd question. but what I understood, I think it can be correct in situations.
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Re: Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
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AsadAbu wrote:
My questions to my honorable expert:
Q1: Does it matter that "comparable things (soldier, returnees) must be in same number?" I mean-if "soldier" is used as singular, then "returnee" must be used as "singular" and If "soldier" is used as plural, then "returnee" must be used as plural?

While the conventional wisdom is that things compared in a sentence must agree in number, it seems to me that you can mix singular and plural in comparisons as long as the comparisons are logical. Doing so may work better when the first item is plural and the second singular than it does when the first item is singular and the second plural. Consider the following examples.

    Unlike most people who work at the company, John works without pay. (plural then singular)

    Unlike the CEO, the other employees at the company have to bring their own lunches. (singular then plural, debatably incorrect, but seems OK to me)

One flaw in (B) is that it does not make sense in this context to compare a singular soldier with plural returnees. Also, the singular "soldier" does not match the plural "troopships," "voyages," or "their."

So, while perhaps agreement in number in comparisons is ideal, you have to use some judgement rather than use a rigid rule in deciding whether a comparison makes sense.


Q2: How will someone be convinced that "Vietnam returnees" are the soldiers?

EDITED:
In Q2, if "Vietnam returnees" are replaced with "Indian returnees", then does it make sense? If I replace "Vietnam returnees" with "Indian returnees", there will be no problem in grammar structure in the newly edited sentence, but the historical background will be changed, may be.
So,........
Original Sentence:
Unlike the soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyages home aboard troopships gave them a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Vietnam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.
--> History says: "Vietnam returnees" are soldiers, I guess (though I have no idea about history!). So, if the "Vietnam returnees" are kind of "soldiers", then the BOLD parts make sense.

Now editing the original sentence by replacing with "Indian returnees".

Edited sentence: (can we be far away from history for some moment:) ?)

Unlike the soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyages home aboard troopships gave them a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Indian returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.
--> Does it make sense? I mean: how do someone convinced that this "Indian returnees" are kind of "soldiers"? Can be "Vietnam returnees" something like "Indian refugees", isn't it? If this is the case, how "Soldiers" and "Indian returnees" are parallel each other in bold parts?


In short, how will someone be convinced that 'soldiers' equals to 'Vietnam returnees' (for parallelism)?

You have to use some judgement. Even if they are not soldiers, the Vietnam returnees seem to be people who returned from somewhere. So, without knowing exactly what Vietnam returnees are, you can still decide whether the comparison makes sense.


Responses in green above.
Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
MartyMurray wrote:
AsadAbu wrote:
My questions to my honorable expert:
Q1: Does it matter that "comparable things (soldier, returnees) must be in same number?" I mean-if "soldier" is used as singular, then "returnee" must be used as "singular" and If "soldier" is used as plural, then "returnee" must be used as plural?

While the conventional wisdom is that things compared in a sentence must agree in number, it seems to me that you can mix singular and plural in comparisons as long as the comparisons are logical. Doing so may work better when the first item is plural and the second singular than it does when the first item is singular and the second plural. Consider the following examples.

    Unlike most people who work at the company, John works without pay. (plural then singular)

    Unlike the CEO, the other employees at the company have to bring their own lunches. (singular then plural, debatably incorrect, but seems OK to me)

One flaw in (B) is that it does not make sense in this context to compare a singular soldier with plural returnees. Also, the singular "soldier" does not match the plural "troopships," "voyages," or "their."

So, while perhaps agreement in number in comparisons is ideal, you have to use some judgement rather than use a rigid rule in deciding whether a comparison makes sense.


Q2: How will someone be convinced that "Vietnam returnees" are the soldiers?

EDITED:
In Q2, if "Vietnam returnees" are replaced with "Indian returnees", then does it make sense? If I replace "Vietnam returnees" with "Indian returnees", there will be no problem in grammar structure in the newly edited sentence, but the historical background will be changed, may be.
So,........
Original Sentence:
Unlike the soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyages home aboard troopships gave them a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Vietnam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.
--> History says: "Vietnam returnees" are soldiers, I guess (though I have no idea about history!). So, if the "Vietnam returnees" are kind of "soldiers", then the BOLD parts make sense.

Now editing the original sentence by replacing with "Indian returnees".

Edited sentence: (can we be far away from history for some moment:) ?)

Unlike the soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyages home aboard troopships gave them a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Indian returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.
--> Does it make sense? I mean: how do someone convinced that this "Indian returnees" are kind of "soldiers"? Can be "Vietnam returnees" something like "Indian refugees", isn't it? If this is the case, how "Soldiers" and "Indian returnees" are parallel each other in bold parts?


In short, how will someone be convinced that 'soldiers' equals to 'Vietnam returnees' (for parallelism)?

You have to use some judgement. Even if they are not soldiers, the Vietnam returnees seem to be people who returned from somewhere. So, without knowing exactly what Vietnam returnees are, you can still decide whether the comparison makes sense.


Responses in green above.

Hi sir MartyMurray,
From your response, it seems that the matter is totally depends on judgement. So, finally I got my expected answer. All of my confusion has been removed, but I've still a query. If I delete some parts in B, then does the sentence still make sense? Here is the B again.


Unlike the (B) soldier coming home after the Second World War on long voyages aboard troopships who had a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Vietnam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.

In this choice, there is a definite article (the) before singular soldier. So, the definite article (the) indicates that this soldier is specific whom I know very well. So, what's wrong with if I compare "Vietnam returnees" with one specific known person (soldier)?
Thanks__
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Re: Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
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AsadAbu wrote:
Hi sir MartyMurray,
From your response, it seems that the matter is totally depends on judgement. So, finally I got my expected answer. All of my confusion has been removed, but I've still a query. If I delete some parts in B, then does the sentence still make sense? Here is the B again.

Unlike the (B) soldier coming home after the Second World War on long voyages aboard troopships who had a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Vietnam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.

In this choice, there is a definite article (the) before singular soldier. So, the definite article (the) indicates that this soldier is specific whom I know very well. So, what's wrong with if I compare "Vietnam returnees" with one specific known person (soldier)?
Thanks__

In a context other than the GMAT, that sentence could be fine. While I'm still not 100 percent sure about comparisons in which singular nouns come before plural ones, I personally find that sentence OK.
Re: Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
1
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aragonn wrote:
Quote:
There are 2 basic rules related to comparisons that you need to keep in mind for the GMAT SC: Rule 1: Compared items must be logically similar. Rule 2: Compared items must be grammatically similar.


Wellyes, number must match, but meaning should also match. I dont have the link but there is a question in which rpm of engine was compared with rpms of tire. All I am saying is you should take a look on the meaning of the sentence. Always try to find out what is compared with what. That is the right way to solve these questions.
I am not sure what you are asking in 2nd question. but what I understood, I think it can be correct in situations.


Hi aragonn,
I'm writing this one to make your attention-probably, it may also help you.
The following question is from Official Guide 12th edition, page# 41. Question# 37.
This question could be the perfect example where "number doesn't matter in comparable things!"

Quote:
Like the grassy fields and old pastures that the upland sandpiper needs for feeding and nesting when it returns in May after wintering in the Argentine Pampas, the sandpipers vanishing in the northeastern United States is a result of residential and industrial development and of changes in farming practices.


(A) the sandpipers vanishing in the northeastern United States is a result of residential and industrial development and of changes in

(B) the bird itself is vanishing in the northeastern United States as a result of residential and industrial development and of changes in

(C) that the birds themselves are vanishing in the northeastern United States is due to residential and industrial development and changes to

(D) in the northeastern United States, sandpipers' vanishing due to residential and industrial development and to changes in

(E) in the northeastern United States, the sandpipers' vanishing, a result of residential and industrial development and changing


The correct choice:


Finally thanks to my honorable expert MartyMurray specially for his creative example.
Thanks to all__
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Re: Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
AsadAbu - I think you forgot to read full sentence. I have mentioned the exception as well.
Re: Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
aragonn wrote:
AsadAbu - I think you forgot to read full sentence. I have mentioned the exception as well.

I think, there is no exception rule, at least in like/unlike types question, in Sentence correction in GMAT; they're actually totally intended meaning and judgement. If I take any specific question as exception, this may misguide me all the times. This one is my personal conviction.
Thanks__
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Re: Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
daagh wrote:
Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Vietnam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.

Mostly a question of wrong comparisons


(A) Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers a --- 1, wrong comparison between a war and soldiers. 2. a War is an event. 'when' is not an appropriate adverb to refer to it .


(B) soldier coming home after the Second World War on long voyages aboard troopships who had --- 1. Use of the singular solder to compare Vietnam returnees is incongruous. 2. troopships are not humans to be referred by 'who'

(C) soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyage home aboard a troopship gave him --- Soldiers and him -- pronoun mismatch


(D) troopships on long voyages home after the Second World War which gave the soldier -- comparison of troopships with the Vietnam returnees is wrong

(E) soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyages home aboard troopships gave the --- Correct comparison and choice


I have a question although I got the correct answer.
For (E), how far back can the word "whose" refer. Does it have a different rule compared with "which"?
Is it because "of the Second World War" is a preposition phrase modifying "soldiers"?
For some reason, sometimes I think "which" describes the immediate preceding noun, and some other time, "which" can refer noun further back in the sentence.
Re: Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
lary301254M7 wrote:
daagh wrote:
Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers a chance to talk out their experiences and begin to absorb them, Vietnam returnees often came home by jet, singly or in small groups.

Mostly a question of wrong comparisons


(A) Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships gave soldiers a --- 1, wrong comparison between a war and soldiers. 2. a War is an event. 'when' is not an appropriate adverb to refer to it .


(B) soldier coming home after the Second World War on long voyages aboard troopships who had --- 1. Use of the singular solder to compare Vietnam returnees is incongruous. 2. troopships are not humans to be referred by 'who'

(C) soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyage home aboard a troopship gave him --- Soldiers and him -- pronoun mismatch


(D) troopships on long voyages home after the Second World War which gave the soldier -- comparison of troopships with the Vietnam returnees is wrong

(E) soldiers of the Second World War, whose long voyages home aboard troopships gave the --- Correct comparison and choice


I have a question although I got the correct answer.
For (E), how far back can the word "whose" refer. Does it have a different rule compared with "which"?
Is it because "of the Second World War" is a preposition phrase modifying "soldiers"?
For some reason, sometimes I think "which" describes the immediate preceding noun, and some other time, "which" can refer noun further back in the sentence.

Hi lary301254M7,
Correction: In E, the last word (the), which is in bold, must be replaced with them according to official question.
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Re: Unlike the Second World War, when long voyages home aboard troopships [#permalink]
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