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Q51 V50 790! (Missed 1 DS question)

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GMAT 1: 800 Q51 V51
Re: Q51 V50 790! (Missed 1 DS question)  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Dec 2017, 13:07
mcelroytutoring wrote:
IanStewart wrote:
One wrong answer in Verbal usually produces a V49 or V50 score, and would only produce a V48 if the wrong answer were on an easier question (except in unusual circumstances, where the test was unusually easy overall). You can see that just by experimenting with GMATPrep tests, or from the fact that people report getting V49 scores on the real test.

Theoretically, this is true, but after searching GMAT Club (and the rest of the internet) high and low, I see no concrete evidence that scores of V49 or V50 are possible with one counted question wrong. Could you please point me to an ESR that supports this assertion? If you look at my example of the V48 with one wrong ESR posted above, you will notice that the test-taker did not answer a question incorrectly until the final quarter of questions, which suggests that this question was of high difficulty, not low difficulty.

The first time I took the GMAT I scored V50. Given what my skill level was at the time, it totally makes sense that I would have gotten one wrong. I don't think I got them all right and scored V50.

Meanwhile, somewhat easy questions do show up later in the quant and verbal sections. So, it is conceivable that that person who scored V48 with one wrong missed a relatively easy one.
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Q51 V50 790! (Missed 1 DS question)  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Dec 2017, 13:39
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If you scored V50 and not V51, then yes, you probably got at least one question wrong. But the question is: was it an experimental question, or one of the 30 counted questions? If the question or questions you got wrong were experimental, then your first attempt on Verbal would potentially match the test-day performance of the OP exactly. (It could also be that the scoring scale has shifted slightly over the years.)

I'm guessing that this V50 test to which you are referring is now over 5 years old, and you don't have an ESR, so we will never know for sure.
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Re: Q51 V50 790! (Missed 1 DS question)  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Dec 2017, 23:55
Aw man just almost! J/k. Congratulations on the 790. And thank you for sharing the ESR.

I wonder if anyone has actually contacted the GMAC to ask about the V50 situation. Does anybody have any info?
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Re: Q51 V50 790! (Missed 1 DS question)  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Jan 2018, 15:05
mcelroytutoring wrote:
Theoretically, this is true, but after searching GMAT Club (and the rest of the internet) high and low, I see no concrete evidence that scores of V49 or V50 are possible with one counted question wrong.


I don't understand what you think a V49-scoring test taker is doing besides answering one question incorrectly, if you think that with only one incorrect answer you can sometimes get a V48.

And you cannot use the score ranges for incoming MBA classes as any evidence of current scoring practices, since GMAT scores are valid for five years. That one school reports accepting a V51-scorer this year doesn't tell you anything about whether V51 scores are still awarded on the GMAT, only that they were awarded at some point in the past five years.
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Q51 V50 790! (Missed 1 DS question)  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 26 Feb 2018, 09:07
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IanStewart wrote:
mcelroytutoring wrote:
Theoretically, this is true, but after searching GMAT Club (and the rest of the internet) high and low, I see no concrete evidence that scores of V49 or V50 are possible with one counted question wrong.
I don't understand what you think a V49-scoring test taker is doing besides answering one question incorrectly, if you think that with only one incorrect answer you can sometimes get a V48.

To be clear, I don't "think" that 1 (counted) question wrong can result in a V48 score. We have concrete evidence of that, in the form of an ESR (see below):

Image

As far as a score of V49, I think there are a few possibilities. One is that a score of V49 simply doesn't exist (you might skip directly from 48 to 50, or vice-versa). Another is that you get some experimental questions wrong, but zero counted questions wrong. The final possibility would be that you get 1 counted question wrong--presumably a harder question than the 1 question incorrectly answered by the person who scores a V48. But the fact remains that we don't have any verified V49 or V50 scores with 1 (counted) question wrong anywhere on GMAT Club, so there is no way to know for sure just yet.

Good point about GMAT scores being valid for 5 years--hence, it is true that HBS's class of 2019 admission stats are not necessarily indicative that a V51 is still possible. It could very well be that a V50 is now a perfect score. However, if we take the GMAC website at its word, then a 51V is still possible (see below).

UPDATE 1/4/17: SEE THIS DEBRIEF FOR MORE DISCUSSION OF THE SAME PHENOMENON.

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Originally posted by mcelroytutoring on 02 Jan 2018, 18:35.
Last edited by mcelroytutoring on 26 Feb 2018, 09:07, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Q51 V50 790! (Missed 1 DS question)  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Jan 2018, 17:21
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mcelroytutoring wrote:
If you scored V50 and not V51, then yes, you probably got at least one question wrong. But the question is: was it an experimental question, or one of the 30 counted questions? If the question or questions you got wrong were experimental, then your first attempt on Verbal would potentially match the test-day performance of the OP exactly. (It could also be that the scoring scale has shifted slightly over the years.)

I'm guessing that this V50 test to which you are referring is now over 5 years old, and you don't have an ESR, so we will never know for sure.


I would like to propose a consideration that hasn't been discussed previously. As of July 2017, the test taker can select in which order to take the different sections. Choosing to take Q --> V --> IR --> AWA or V --> Q --> IR --> AWA, as opposed to the original order, may induce the algorithm to apply a "discount" to some verbal questions and thus inhibit the test taker from achieving a perfect score, despite 100% accuracy. Keep in mind that the algorithm compares test takers going back three years, so those that had taken the test prior to the introduction of the order selection weren't as privileged.

This is of course a mere speculation, but it shouldn't be entirely impossible that the algorithm ranks individuals separately based on order selection.
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Q51 V50 790! (Missed 1 DS question)  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Jan 2018, 19:57
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I doubt that this is the case. GMAC has assured us that in its preliminary studies, the selection of alternate section orders--in other words, allowing students to complete Quant and Verbal first, in either order--has had no effect on the "integrity of GMAT scores." Neither has GMAC suggested in any way that one's chosen section order could somehow affect the scoring of the test.

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You can download my official test-taker score report (all scores within the last 5 years) directly from the Pearson Vue website: https://tinyurl.com/y94hlarr Date of Birth: 09 December 1979.

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Re: Q51 V50 790! (Missed 1 DS question)  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Feb 2018, 20:33
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Hi all,

GMAC got back to me and my final score is Q51 V51 790!

So that seems to answer a few questions posed:
-yes, a V51 is still possible
-yes, an 800 necessitates 100% of the graded questions be answered correctly at this time
-no, it does not appear that any of the experimental questions impact scoring.

I am curious to know what was changed about the grading algorithm to result in the score change (if all graded verbal questions correct => V=51 ?), but regardless the reason all is right in the GMAT scoring world it seems. Someone linked to another thread where someone got a V50 with 100% correct responses. I'll be happy to inform them if someone doesn't beat me to it.
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Q51 V50 790! (Missed 1 DS question)  [#permalink]

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New post 23 Feb 2018, 07:19
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justalmost wrote:
Hi all,

GMAC got back to me and my final score is Q51 V51 790!

So that seems to answer a few questions posed:
-yes, a V51 is still possible
-yes, an 800 necessitates 100% of the graded questions be answered correctly at this time
-no, it does not appear that any of the experimental questions impact scoring.

I am curious to know what was changed about the grading algorithm to result in the score change (if all graded verbal questions correct => V=51 ?), but regardless the reason all is right in the GMAT scoring world it seems. Someone linked to another thread where someone got a V50 with 100% correct responses. I'll be happy to inform them if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Congrats on the 51/51, eternaloptimist , and thanks for sharing the news! It took GMAC long enough to change your score, but late is better than never. : ) I like to think that my recent message to GMAC regarding your case might have played a small role.

Given the initial results, I suspect that the experimental questions do in fact still matter to the difficulty curve, but raising your Verbal score to a perfect 51 was the right thing to do, even if it took 3 months for GMAC to finally do so. It's not fair for GMAC to claim that the pretest questions "don't count" if answering 100% of counted questions correctly doesn't yield a perfect V51.

By any chance, did GMAC update your ESR as well?
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One of the only known humans to have taken the GMAT 5 times and scored in the 700s every time (700, 710, 730, 750, 770), including verified section scores of Q50 / V47, as well as personal bests of 8/8 IR (2 times), 6/6 AWA (4 times), 50/51Q and 48/51V (1 question wrong).

You can download my official test-taker score report (all scores within the last 5 years) directly from the Pearson Vue website: https://tinyurl.com/y94hlarr Date of Birth: 09 December 1979.

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Re: Q51 V50 790! (Missed 1 DS question)  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Sep 2018, 18:44
Hi justalmost

You mentioned about Veritas question banks. Do you mean the free question banks or those after registering for the Veritas course?

Thanks for your information.

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Re: Q51 V50 790! (Missed 1 DS question) &nbs [#permalink] 02 Sep 2018, 18:44

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