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Olin ($$) VS HEC Paris (no $) VS Wait for one year

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New post 03 May 2019, 09:30
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Hi Everyone,

I have been trying to figure out what to do next. I am offered $75K at Olin and no scholarship at HEC Paris. Also, note that I have already paid my deposit at HEC for 9,000 euros. I am also waitlisted at McCombs and Johnson. Even if I let go of my deposit at HEC, I will shell out lesser money at Olin than HEC.

My post MBA goal is to get into consulting, preferably MBB.

A bit about my background: GMAT: 710, MS from a Univ of Alberta and BTech from IIT. I have been in Canada for almost 7 years and will become Canadian citizen soon. So post graduation from Olin, I'll qualify for TN visa, reducing the risk of not getting into H1B lottery.

My concern with Olin was only prestige in terms of rankings and international recognition, and my concern with HEC is employment opportunities post graduation. I have been a little unfortunate past application season as I started a bit late in the process, and did not have enough time to prepare GMAT and all other aspects of applications. All my applications were sent out in R2.

I am still waiting to hear back from Johnson and McCombs, but time is running out.

What would you guys do in my situation? I am already close to 30 and past off an average age for US MBA programs. At the same time, I do not want to settle to a lower ranked school. Do you guys think I should retake GMAT and apply next year, or should I just go forward with Olin/HEC?

Thanks so much!
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New post 03 May 2019, 12:16
Congratulations on your admits!!!
Is that $75K for one year or two years at Olin?

Would you take McCombs or Johnson over Olin with Scholarship?
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Re: Olin ($$) VS HEC Paris (no $) VS Wait for one year  [#permalink]

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New post 03 May 2019, 12:27
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Hi bb,

Thank you for responding.

Its 75k for two years, so tuition fee effectively is only $50k at Olin vs 70k euros at HEC + higher expenses in Paris vs St Louis.

I'll take McCombs/Johnson over Olin for sure. I come from energy background so McCombs was a really good fit due to its location. I made sure to reflect that in my essays/interviews, but I feel like my GMAT score took me down :(
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Re: Olin ($$) VS HEC Paris (no $) VS Wait for one year  [#permalink]

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New post 03 May 2019, 17:43
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I think Johnson is the only school that would have MBB recruiting on campus. If that's your goal, then that's the best shot.


In terms of HEC, it is a whole new Universe - you have to take some things into consideration, such as, do you speak French? To recruit locally, you will have to. Otherwise, you will need to recruit in UK, as pretty much the only place that will allow you to get a job in EU without a local language knowledge. Asia is a possibility but I don't know how well HEC MBA places (the HEC masters is very well known and very highly ranked by the way). I have known one of the users who went there - they were from Canada as well and had a great experience but they returned back to Canada after graduation and were recruiting locally, which is a pain as they were not able to do much of it in advance from France, so they landed in Canada with no job to start. I would be curious what attracts you to HEC - do they have MBB placement/on campus recruiting? 70K EUR does not seem that bad vs. 50K if you think you are getting a quality program and boosting your employability, esp if you already paid 9K ?
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New post 03 May 2019, 21:33
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Hi bb,

Things attracted me to HEC are short program length, rankings, overall program cost compared to US MBA programs (assuming no scholarships), location and small class size. Though I always had my reservations about employment opportunities post graduation as career center at HEC is pretty useless, more so for internationals who have no french skills. HEC was sort of my back up school as I felt I would crack one of the target schools in US I applied to, though now I feel I completely underestimated the level of competition among Indian candidates. As per previous employment reports published by HEC, MBB do hire there. Overall employment stats look fine on paper, but I'll take it with a pinch of salt. Based on my discussions from recent HEC alums, all of them said MBA candidates are on their own to secure employment, and certainly more difficult to recruit compared to US MBA grads. This is why I was more inclined to enroll in US program, but preferably in a top 20.

I don't have to pay anything to HEC until December so I feel like I should apply couple US schools in upcoming early decision deadlines. In case I manage to get into a better school, I will let HEC go. What do you think of this strategy?

Thank you for your inputs.
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Re: Olin ($$) VS HEC Paris (no $) VS Wait for one year  [#permalink]

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New post 03 May 2019, 21:43
My understanding was that HEC was 16 months with an internship. Do they have a shorter program?

Posted from my mobile device
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Re: Olin ($$) VS HEC Paris (no $) VS Wait for one year  [#permalink]

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New post 03 May 2019, 21:48
No, 16 months it is. Though I did apply to INSEAD as well.
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Re: Olin ($$) VS HEC Paris (no $) VS Wait for one year  [#permalink]

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New post 04 May 2019, 09:41
Brand value, HEC is definitely better than Olin.

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New post 04 May 2019, 12:57
JohnJohnJ wrote:
Brand value, HEC is definitely better than Olin.

Posted from my mobile device


Any comments on employability post graduation from HEC? Are grads able to leverage that brand value?
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New post 04 May 2019, 13:16
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gmatenthureturns wrote:
JohnJohnJ wrote:
Brand value, HEC is definitely better than Olin.

Posted from my mobile device


Any comments on employability post graduation from HEC? Are grads able to leverage that brand value?


I mean, yes, companies do hire at business schools in US, but it’s not easy here either. You have to do a million coffee chats and network with a million people.

HECs employment report suggests that its tech employments median/mean salary is significantly better than many business schools in USA. Median/mean salaries in other industries is similar at HEC and Olin.

I had a few professors from Insead and HEC and they spoke highly about those schools.

If people have said that getting employment isn’t easy at HEC, it’s not easy here either.
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New post 05 May 2019, 17:49
Though it is very unlikely but do you guys think if I could negotiate with HEC for scholarship since I received one from Olin?
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New post 09 May 2019, 06:54
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Congrats on your admits! A little late to the party here but wanted to offer my thoughts:

-You cite your weakness as your GMAT of 710, I wouldn't think that would be a point against you at Cornell who seems to be extremely generous toward 700+ GMATs (especially given a 3.8 GPA!) Do you come from an overly represented demographic?
-Did you use an admissions consultant at all? My suspicion is that there may have been holes in your application (extracurriculars? good stories for the Johnson "everything not on the resume" essay)? one of Johnson/McCombs should have probably worked out if you executed well
-Did you visit any of the American schools? Particularly Duke/Johnson? Duke focuses on fit and seems to really judge candidates more harshly who don't a) visit campus or b) schedule an interview during open interview period

Now, on to your present situation:

-I think HEC would be extremely tough to navigate, would likely not lead to an MBB job, and would leave you with a fairly weak network if you returned to North America. There is no doubt it carries prestige, but it doesn't mean it's a good fit.
-Olin is a strong program, but not one that will give you access to MBB. Certainly lower tier consulting jobs will be obtainable and the midwest network is quite powerful, but I would make sure you are aware that MBB is off the table. Like BB said, Johnson is really the only one that would give you a legitimate shot (have you attempted to work the waitlist at either school?)
-I think you have to really think hard about your post-mba goal and what is realistic. If it's MBB? I reccomend applying again, really committing to a few focused schools in the tier of Tuck/Duke/Ross/Darden and reapply at Johnson. If you find you're comfortable with other career options (including non-MBB consulting) then consider that Olin will likely get you there at a fraction of the cost and with a stronger network in your likely region of post-grad work.

Congrats again!
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New post 09 May 2019, 22:18
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mradamsmith wrote:
Congrats on your admits! A little late to the party here but wanted to offer my thoughts:

-You cite your weakness as your GMAT of 710, I wouldn't think that would be a point against you at Cornell who seems to be extremely generous toward 700+ GMATs (especially given a 3.8 GPA!) Do you come from an overly represented demographic?
-Did you use an admissions consultant at all? My suspicion is that there may have been holes in your application (extracurriculars? good stories for the Johnson "everything not on the resume" essay)? one of Johnson/McCombs should have probably worked out if you executed well
-Did you visit any of the American schools? Particularly Duke/Johnson? Duke focuses on fit and seems to really judge candidates more harshly who don't a) visit campus or b) schedule an interview during open interview period

Now, on to your present situation:

-I think HEC would be extremely tough to navigate, would likely not lead to an MBB job, and would leave you with a fairly weak network if you returned to North America. There is no doubt it carries prestige, but it doesn't mean it's a good fit.
-Olin is a strong program, but not one that will give you access to MBB. Certainly lower tier consulting jobs will be obtainable and the midwest network is quite powerful, but I would make sure you are aware that MBB is off the table. Like BB said, Johnson is really the only one that would give you a legitimate shot (have you attempted to work the waitlist at either school?)
-I think you have to really think hard about your post-mba goal and what is realistic. If it's MBB? I reccomend applying again, really committing to a few focused schools in the tier of Tuck/Duke/Ross/Darden and reapply at Johnson. If you find you're comfortable with other career options (including non-MBB consulting) then consider that Olin will likely get you there at a fraction of the cost and with a stronger network in your likely region of post-grad work.

Congrats again!


Hello mradamsmith

Great points! Thank you.

I do unfortunately come from over-represented group of Indian pool, which is why 710 is probably below average for those schools. From your experience, do you think if I apply again as Canadian citizen in few months, would I be evaluated against Canadian applicants or AdComs will still put me in Indian pool since my undergrad was done there?

I did work with admission consultant this past application season, and I thought my essays were ok. As per my discussions with them, GMAT, age and MBA being my 3rd master's degree are the weak elements in my profile. Would you agree with that assessment? I am 30 right now.

I have been following up with McCombs/Johnson to get off the waitlist. Though given the stats from previous years, apparently candidates hardly get off the waitlist from those schools. I don't think there's enough time to retake the GMAT to improve my score significantly. I am probably looking to reapply coming fall.

Regarding your point about employability from HEC, I do agree. That is what has been holding me back to fully commit to HEC. With no french skills and substantial network in France/Europe, I agree recruiting will be a challenge.

I see you are headed to Duke, and I am considering to reapply in ED coming fall, ofcourse if I manage to improve my GMAT min 20-30 points. Meanwhile, if you are comfortable, I would love to have your feedback on my Duke essays. Please let me know, and I will DM you.

Thank you again for your time and Good luck!
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New post 25 Aug 2019, 01:17
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Do not go to HEC unless you come from MBB, are an IITian/Tech giant, a finance guru employed at Big4, and want to work elsewhere except consulting - Dubai/Singapore and Tech.

Indians, most, at HEC are in soup. Sadly, instead of enjoying your MBA life the way you should - going through an academic inferno and living a life in an intellectual well - you'd be left networking and worried for job from day one. Which is a shame, because it should not be so.

And lastly; Europe is not accustomed to MBA degree. They do not get the concept of it - at least the way USA and India do; USA and India worship MBAs. For them, MBA is "The degree of business". For Europe that same sentiment is reflected for the "Grand Ecole". MBAs in Europe are more like the PGPXs are in India - the non-flagship program holders (Excepting INSEAD)

For INDIANS -
US B-Schools' (Top 20) academic rigour is much superior to that of HEC.
At US B-Schools:
- Internship opportunities are 10 times more with salaries 4 times more.
- Job opportunities are 3 times more with salaries way more than HEC.

Chances that you will be thrown out from the US continent is way more than European one. But also, chances that you will have a job are much higher. Mostly you get transferred to subsidiary branches outside US if your H1B does get tossed. However, there is 15% chance, if you are back in India, a crore loan is more worrisome than a 50 lac one. These things should too be kept in mind.

Hope this answers all your questions.

P.S. The whole point is not coming back to India, right? At least not immediately. - If otherwise, go to HEC, unless it is LBS and M7, instead of any T-2 US B-School. Because you might get a job in MBB India graduating from HEC but not from Olin/McCombs. Unless, you are one lucky b.
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New post 25 Aug 2019, 06:54
ADDICTED2GMAT wrote:
Do not go to HEC unless you come from MBB, are an IITian/Tech giant, a finance guru employed at Big4, and want to work elsewhere except consulting - Dubai/Singapore and Tech.

Indians, most, at HEC are in soup. Sadly, instead of enjoying your MBA life the way you should - going through an academic inferno and living a life in an intellectual well - you'd be left networking and worried for job from day one. Which is a shame, because it should not be so.

And lastly; Europe is not accustomed to MBA degree. They do not get the concept of it - at least the way USA and India do; USA and India worship MBAs. For them, MBA is "The degree of business". For Europe that same sentiment is reflected for the "Grand Ecole". MBAs in Europe are more like the PGPXs are in India - the non-flagship program holders (Excepting INSEAD)

For INDIANS -
US B-Schools' (Top 20) academic rigour is much superior to that of HEC.
At US B-Schools:
- Internship opportunities are 10 times more with salaries 4 times more.
- Job opportunities are 3 times more with salaries way more than HEC.

Chances that you will be thrown out from the US continent is way more than European one. But also, chances that you will have a job are much higher. Mostly you get transferred to subsidiary branches outside US if your H1B does get tossed. However, there is 15% chance, if you are back in India, a crore loan is more worrisome than a 50 lac one. These things should too be kept in mind.

Hope this answers all your questions.

P.S. The whole point is not coming back to India, right? At least not immediately. - If otherwise, go to HEC, unless it is LBS and M7, instead of any T-2 US B-School. Because you might get a job in MBB India graduating from HEC but not from Olin/McCombs. Unless, you are one lucky b.


Hi ADDICTED2GMAT

Great answer. Just as honest as I was expecting, and shows the overall sentiment about HEC placements I keep hearing about. Do you mind addressing the following:

1) How does being an IITian/MBB/Big 4 helps to overcome the drawbacks going to HEC? Do they have better/easier way out because of their already established network, or they get some added advantage/recognition from recruiters because of their background?

2) Why do you think Indians specifically have a hard time recruiting at HEC? Is it language barrier or it is just a way European markets function, which are disinterested in hiring MBAs as you briefly mentioned before.

3) Besides MBB, how difficult do you think would it be to land in Big 4? You guessed in right, I was not planning to get to India immediately after graduation, so I am looking at European/North American markets.

Look forward to more of your thoughts!
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New post 25 Aug 2019, 23:14
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gmatenthureturns wrote:
ADDICTED2GMAT wrote:
Do not go to HEC unless you come from MBB, are an IITian/Tech giant, a finance guru employed at Big4, and want to work elsewhere except consulting - Dubai/Singapore and Tech.

Indians, most, at HEC are in soup. Sadly, instead of enjoying your MBA life the way you should - going through an academic inferno and living a life in an intellectual well - you'd be left networking and worried for job from day one. Which is a shame, because it should not be so.

And lastly; Europe is not accustomed to MBA degree. They do not get the concept of it - at least the way USA and India do; USA and India worship MBAs. For them, MBA is "The degree of business". For Europe that same sentiment is reflected for the "Grand Ecole". MBAs in Europe are more like the PGPXs are in India - the non-flagship program holders (Excepting INSEAD)

For INDIANS -
US B-Schools' (Top 20) academic rigour is much superior to that of HEC.
At US B-Schools:
- Internship opportunities are 10 times more with salaries 4 times more.
- Job opportunities are 3 times more with salaries way more than HEC.

Chances that you will be thrown out from the US continent is way more than European one. But also, chances that you will have a job are much higher. Mostly you get transferred to subsidiary branches outside US if your H1B does get tossed. However, there is 15% chance, if you are back in India, a crore loan is more worrisome than a 50 lac one. These things should too be kept in mind.

Hope this answers all your questions.

P.S. The whole point is not coming back to India, right? At least not immediately. - If otherwise, go to HEC, unless it is LBS and M7, instead of any T-2 US B-School. Because you might get a job in MBB India graduating from HEC but not from Olin/McCombs. Unless, you are one lucky b.


Hi ADDICTED2GMAT

Great answer. Just as honest as I was expecting, and shows the overall sentiment about HEC placements I keep hearing about. Do you mind addressing the following:

1) How does being an IITian/MBB/Big 4 helps to overcome the drawbacks going to HEC? Do they have better/easier way out because of their already established network, or they get some added advantage/recognition from recruiters because of their background?

2) Why do you think Indians specifically have a hard time recruiting at HEC? Is it language barrier or it is just a way European markets function, which are disinterested in hiring MBAs as you briefly mentioned before.

3) Besides MBB, how difficult do you think would it be to land in Big 4? You guessed in right, I was not planning to get to India immediately after graduation, so I am looking at European/North American markets.

Look forward to more of your thoughts!


Hi,

Here is my attempt at answering your queries:
1. Being an IITian/MBB/Big 4 is a reflection of talent - because in Europe, a MBA is someone who will be hired at double the cost of MiM and levels up in hierarchy. So arriving from IIT/MBB/Big 4 is a clear reflection of established expertise in the domain industry. The industry feels more confident hiring them. And if Europe doesn't work well, they land a 4-5 Million INR job in India due to Tier-1 academic/job/both.

2. Indians specifically have more problems because of following few reasons:
-- They suck at language. 90% of job opportunities will be lost because Indians will not know any European language.
-- They Come from India where the official language in English. Other asians have entire business run and communications happen in their own language for example China and Japan.
-- India has its own top business schools - and a lot of them - so subsidiaries in India are already loaded up with MBAs. Plus HEC has little to no brand recognition in India.
-- India Inc. is not more than 3.7% of the world, unlike China that is 15%. So companies don't aspire too much to invest in Indians as sending them back to their Indian subsidiary will not yield high returns.
-- Indians are 25% of the class. Having such over representation of a community that already struggles in finding a job makes it over competitive and highly tensed, lowers the diversity exposure, and forms an overly cluttered formation of Indian groups.
Because other countries either have the benefit of their own language as the only mode of communication or lack business institutions of HEC quality, if not repute. This situation motivates companies to hire such countries' nationals, coach them, and send back to their home country so that these nationals can run these companies' business back in their own home country.

3. Big 4 is possible if you have a solid background in Finance, have a proven career track in the banking industry, have majored in Finance from HEC, have exceptional GPA of >3.8, and again, are one lucky b.

Let me tell you again. HEC is not a bad school. In fact, HEC is a great school, which is, in general, bad for Indians. Unless HEC truly starts looking at this seriously, by drawing more talent from elsewhere in the world like INSEAD does (INSEAD teaches 1000 students a year with maximum 10% Indians) and starts maintaining a career centre in India - a centre that will actively create HEC brand image within Indian industry and partner with firms in India, leading to leadership developmental programs - Indians will continue suffering in the short-medium term. In the long-term, all goes well for everyone who studies from anywhere in the world. Unless you are one unlucky b.
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New post 26 Aug 2019, 00:14
ADDICTED2GMAT wrote:
gmatenthureturns wrote:
ADDICTED2GMAT wrote:
Do not go to HEC unless you come from MBB, are an IITian/Tech giant, a finance guru employed at Big4, and want to work elsewhere except consulting - Dubai/Singapore and Tech.

Indians, most, at HEC are in soup. Sadly, instead of enjoying your MBA life the way you should - going through an academic inferno and living a life in an intellectual well - you'd be left networking and worried for job from day one. Which is a shame, because it should not be so.

And lastly; Europe is not accustomed to MBA degree. They do not get the concept of it - at least the way USA and India do; USA and India worship MBAs. For them, MBA is "The degree of business". For Europe that same sentiment is reflected for the "Grand Ecole". MBAs in Europe are more like the PGPXs are in India - the non-flagship program holders (Excepting INSEAD)

For INDIANS -
US B-Schools' (Top 20) academic rigour is much superior to that of HEC.
At US B-Schools:
- Internship opportunities are 10 times more with salaries 4 times more.
- Job opportunities are 3 times more with salaries way more than HEC.

Chances that you will be thrown out from the US continent is way more than European one. But also, chances that you will have a job are much higher. Mostly you get transferred to subsidiary branches outside US if your H1B does get tossed. However, there is 15% chance, if you are back in India, a crore loan is more worrisome than a 50 lac one. These things should too be kept in mind.

Hope this answers all your questions.

P.S. The whole point is not coming back to India, right? At least not immediately. - If otherwise, go to HEC, unless it is LBS and M7, instead of any T-2 US B-School. Because you might get a job in MBB India graduating from HEC but not from Olin/McCombs. Unless, you are one lucky b.


Hi ADDICTED2GMAT

Great answer. Just as honest as I was expecting, and shows the overall sentiment about HEC placements I keep hearing about. Do you mind addressing the following:

1) How does being an IITian/MBB/Big 4 helps to overcome the drawbacks going to HEC? Do they have better/easier way out because of their already established network, or they get some added advantage/recognition from recruiters because of their background?

2) Why do you think Indians specifically have a hard time recruiting at HEC? Is it language barrier or it is just a way European markets function, which are disinterested in hiring MBAs as you briefly mentioned before.

3) Besides MBB, how difficult do you think would it be to land in Big 4? You guessed in right, I was not planning to get to India immediately after graduation, so I am looking at European/North American markets.

Look forward to more of your thoughts!


Hi,

Here is my attempt at answering your queries:
1. Being an IITian/MBB/Big 4 is a reflection of talent - because in Europe, a MBA is someone who will be hired at double the cost of MiM and levels up in hierarchy. So arriving from IIT/MBB/Big 4 is a clear reflection of established expertise in the domain industry. The industry feels more confident hiring them. And if Europe doesn't work well, they land a 4-5 Million INR job in India due to Tier-1 academic/job/both.

2. Indians specifically have more problems because of following few reasons:
-- They suck at language. 90% of job opportunities will be lost because Indians will not know any European language.
-- They Come from India where the official language in English. Other asians have entire business run and communications happen in their own language for example China and Japan.
-- India has its own top business schools - and a lot of them - so subsidiaries in India are already loaded up with MBAs. Plus HEC has little to no brand recognition in India.
-- India Inc. is not more than 3.7% of the world, unlike China that is 15%. So companies don't aspire too much to invest in Indians as sending them back to their Indian subsidiary will not yield high returns.
-- Indians are 25% of the class. Having such over representation of a community that already struggles in finding a job makes it over competitive and highly tensed, lowers the diversity exposure, and forms an overly cluttered formation of Indian groups.
Because other countries either have the benefit of their own language as the only mode of communication or lack business institutions of HEC quality, if not repute. This situation motivates companies to hire such countries' nationals, coach them, and send back to their home country so that these nationals can run these companies' business back in their own home country.

3. Big 4 is possible if you have a solid background in Finance, have a proven career track in the banking industry, have majored in Finance from HEC, have exceptional GPA of >3.8, and again, are one lucky b.

Let me tell you again. HEC is not a bad school. In fact, HEC is a great school, which is, in general, bad for Indians. Unless HEC truly starts looking at this seriously, by drawing more talent from elsewhere in the world like INSEAD does (INSEAD teaches 1000 students a year with maximum 10% Indians) and starts maintaining a career centre in India - a centre that will actively create HEC brand image within Indian industry and partner with firms in India, leading to leadership developmental programs - Indians will continue suffering in the short-medium term. In the long-term, all goes well for everyone who studies from anywhere in the world. Unless you are one unlucky b.


Thanks ADDICTED2GMAT. Just DMed you to take this discussion forward. Greatly appreciate your time.
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Re: Olin ($$) VS HEC Paris (no $) VS Wait for one year  [#permalink]

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New post 31 Oct 2019, 23:26
This entire thread is just GOLD!!!!!

Cleared so many doubts of mine.

Thanks to everybody involved.

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Re: Olin ($$) VS HEC Paris (no $) VS Wait for one year   [#permalink] 31 Oct 2019, 23:26
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