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Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form

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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   24 Oct 2014, 04:24
Sontawila wrote:
Hi all,

I'm trying to improve my GMAT verbal score so I started studying various materials such as Manhattan verbal book and various topics in this great forum. Of course I'm missing a lot of basic grammar rules that I try to figure out. One of which is:


Subjunctive!

One of the sites has a fill-the-blanks quiz here:
https://www.englishpage.com/minitutorial ... ercise.htm

Some examples:

1- I suggest that Frank read the directions carefully before assembling the bicycle. He doesn't want the wheels to fall off while he is riding down a hill

2- She told me that the government regulates the airline industry. I don't know if that is true.

3- I think it's an interesting fact that she comes from Estonia.

My question is: When do you use/add the "s" to the verb? I cant make sense of it.

Thanks


Use the simple verb form whenever there is a request/suggestion/command.
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   21 Jul 2016, 00:35
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bb wrote:
Subjunctive Rules and List of Verbs

The subjunctive in English is the simple form of the verb when used after certain verbs indicating that one person wants another person to do something. The word that must always appear in subjunctive sentences. If it is omitted, most of the verbs are followed by the infinitive.

Example:
We urge that you leave now.
We urge you to leave now.


Structure:
subject + verb from table below (any tense) + that + subject + verb in simple form


Use that after these verbs in subjunctive mood:
Code:
advise        decree        move        prefer           request         suggest
ask            demand       order        propose        require          urge
command       insist                   recommend       stipulate

Examples:
The judge insisted that the jury return a verdict immediately.
The university requires that all its students take this course.
The doctor suggested that his patient stop smoking.
Congress has decreed that the gasoline tax be abolished.
We proposed that he take a vacation.
I move that we adjourn until this afternoon.

There is also a list of adjectives after which you should use that and follow them by a simple verb form:

Code:
advised       necessary   recommended   urgent
important    obligatory   required           imperative
mandatory   proposed    suggested


it + be (any tense) + adjective + that + subject + verb in simple tense


Examples:
It is necessary that he find the books.
It was urgent that she leave at once.
It has been proposed that we change the topic.
It is important that you remember this question.
It has been suggested that he forget the election.
It was recommended that we wait for the authorities.


Thank you ,The most succinct Subjunctive post ever.
Question:Is there a "Bossy word rule" regarding their number<singl. vs pl.>?

The board require the school to submit the report.<incorrect>
The board requires the school to submit the report.<correct>
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   17 Jul 2017, 07:15
bb wrote:
Subjunctive Rules and List of Verbs

The subjunctive in English is the simple form of the verb when used after certain verbs indicating that one person wants another person to do something. The word that must always appear in subjunctive sentences. If it is omitted, most of the verbs are followed by the infinitive.

Example:
We urge that you leave now.
We urge you to leave now.


Structure:
subject + verb from table below (any tense) + that + subject + verb in simple form


Use that after these verbs in subjunctive mood:
Code:
advise        decree        move        prefer           request         suggest
ask            demand       order        propose        require          urge
command       insist                   recommend       stipulate

Examples:
The judge insisted that the jury return a verdict immediately.
The university requires that all its students take this course.
The doctor suggested that his patient stop smoking.
Congress has decreed that the gasoline tax be abolished.
We proposed that he take a vacation.
I move that we adjourn until this afternoon.

There is also a list of adjectives after which you should use that and follow them by a simple verb form:

Code:
advised       necessary   recommended   urgent
important    obligatory   required           imperative
mandatory   proposed    suggested


it + be (any tense) + adjective + that + subject + verb in simple tense


Examples:
It is necessary that he find the books.
It was urgent that she leave at once.
It has been proposed that we change the topic.
It is important that you remember this question.
It has been suggested that he forget the election.
It was recommended that we wait for the authorities.


Hey BB,

Great post on the usage of "That". As I understand, we use "that" either in the subjunctive form, with certain words (such as recommended), as part of an essential modifier or as a pronoun (correct me if I've missed out anything).

If a have a question as: "I have found evidence that proves that the Earth is not flat". Is that sentence gmat-tically correct? The first is part of an essential modifier and the second is necessary after proves. Or is a sentence such as "I have found evidence proving that the Earth is not flat"?

Thanks for your help
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   16 Jan 2018, 00:17
is expect too a subjunctive marker??
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   31 Jan 2018, 07:03
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Sankalp92 wrote:
is expect too a subjunctive marker??

Hi Sankalp92, following are couple of officially correct answers that do not use subjunctive with expect:

The bank holds $3 billion in loans that are seriously delinquent or in such trouble it does not expect payments to be made when they are due.

Not one of the potential investors is expected to make an offer to buy First Interstate Bank until a merger agreement is signed that includes a provision for penalties if the deal were not to be concluded.

Having said that, chances are minimal that your ability to pick the correct answer choice would require memorization of all these subjunctive markers.

Context of the sentence and a good understanding of the application of subjunctive, is more crucial than memorizing the list of subjunctive markers.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses Subjunctive, its application and examples in significant detail. If someone is interested, PM me your email-id; I can mail the corresponding section.
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   02 Sep 2018, 16:38
"Advise" is not subjunctive and you require "to verb" (Source EGmat)
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   02 Feb 2019, 07:50
Sontawila wrote:
Hi all,

I'm trying to improve my GMAT verbal score so I started studying various materials such as Manhattan verbal book and various topics in this great forum. Of course I'm missing a lot of basic grammar rules that I try to figure out. One of which is:


Subjunctive!

One of the sites has a fill-the-blanks quiz here:
https://www.englishpage.com/minitutorial ... ercise.htm

Some examples:

1- I suggest that Frank read the directions carefully before assembling the bicycle. He doesn't want the wheels to fall off while he is riding down a hill

2- She told me that the government regulates the airline industry. I don't know if that is true.

3- I think it's an interesting fact that she comes from Estonia.

My question is: When do you use/add the "s" to the verb? I cant make sense of it.

Thanks


Can some one explain which option is correct in these sentences. I got the the right side answer but the above link file states the left answer to be correct.:

1) The monk insisted that the tourists not enter / do not enter the temple until they had removed their shoes.

2) Was it really necessary that I be sitting/ sit there watching you the entire time you were rehearsing for the play? It was really boring watching you repeat the scenes over and over again.

3) The sign at the pool recommended that you not swim/ do not swim after eating a large meal.

4)It is necessary that a life guard monitor/ monitors the summing pool while the children are taking their swimming lessons.
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   03 May 2020, 08:32
bb wrote:
Subjunctive Rules and List of Verbs

The subjunctive in English is the simple form of the verb when used after certain verbs indicating that one person wants another person to do something. The word that must always appear in subjunctive sentences. If it is omitted, most of the verbs are followed by the infinitive.

Example:
We urge that you leave now.
We urge you to leave now.


Structure:
subject + verb from table below (any tense) + that + subject + verb in simple form


Use that after these verbs in subjunctive mood:
Code:
advise        decree        move        prefer           request         suggest
ask            demand       order        propose        require          urge
command       insist                   recommend       stipulate

Examples:
The judge insisted that the jury return a verdict immediately.
The university requires that all its students take this course.
The doctor suggested that his patient stop smoking.
Congress has decreed that the gasoline tax be abolished.
We proposed that he take a vacation.
I move that we adjourn until this afternoon.

There is also a list of adjectives after which you should use that and follow them by a simple verb form:

Code:
advised       necessary   recommended   urgent
important    obligatory   required           imperative
mandatory   proposed    suggested


it + be (any tense) + adjective + that + subject + verb in simple tense


Examples:
It is necessary that he find the books.
It was urgent that she leave at once.
It has been proposed that we change the topic.
It is important that you remember this question.
It has been suggested that he forget the election.
It was recommended that we wait for the authorities.



Hi bb,

Thanks a lot for this detailed post regarding the subjunctive mood.

I have a doubt here, I am following egmat Verbal tutorials and in one video of subjunctive mood they have mentioned ADVISE requires "to verb" not "Subjunctive verb".

In this post you mentioned "ADVISE" requires the subjunctive verb, Could you please clear my doubt.

Also, I have read all comments of this post and found that you were going to share a pdf of words that need a subjunctive verb, could you please share that.

Thanks a lot.
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   13 Jul 2021, 10:24
bb

I was going through with subjunctive information from expertsglobal and here is some of information given as below

" The wishful verb as the subjunctive mood is used to express desires and hypothesis, the presence of wishful verbs is a clear indicator of its use. Such Wishful verbs include wish,hope, hypothesis assume etc. "

I wish I were a king.

What kind of usage is this of subjunctive ?
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   13 Jul 2021, 10:41
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swatib28 wrote:
bb

I was going through with subjunctive information from expertsglobal and here is some of information given as below

" The wishful verb as the subjunctive mood is used to express desires and hypothesis, the presence of wishful verbs is a clear indicator of its use. Such Wishful verbs include wish,hope, hypothesis assume etc. "

I wish I were a king.

What kind of usage is this of subjunctive ?


Hi. This is an unreal condition. You can search for real and unreal conditions. You will find a much better explanation that way.

Basically with a real condition, some thing that is or could be true, you would say I wish I was not alone. However you are alone

On the other hand, you would say I wish I were hungry. Indicating that you are not hungry at this time and it’s not true.

Many people incorrectly use was and were with unreal conditions and they are very rarely correct it but these are grammar rules.

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Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   13 Jul 2021, 10:44
Expert Reply
Hi. Sorry I have missed your message. To clarify, it doesn’t mean that any time you would use the word advise, it Hass to be followed by a simple verb form. Otherwise can be used in the number of ways. Instead, 2 things:
1. Advise can be used in subjunctive
2. If you use the subjunctive structure, you use a simple verb form.

To illustrate, it would be correct to say these two things:

1. I advised him to drink plenty of water
2. I advised that he drink plenty of water

Note that the second example says drink and not drinks. This is the grammatical structure if you use the subjunctive construction. It is not often used and spoken English and not super common on the GMAT


a123bansal wrote:
bb wrote:
Subjunctive Rules and List of Verbs

The subjunctive in English is the simple form of the verb when used after certain verbs indicating that one person wants another person to do something. The word that must always appear in subjunctive sentences. If it is omitted, most of the verbs are followed by the infinitive.

Example:
We urge that you leave now.
We urge you to leave now.


Structure:
subject + verb from table below (any tense) + that + subject + verb in simple form


Use that after these verbs in subjunctive mood:
Code:
advise        decree        move        prefer           request         suggest
ask            demand       order        propose        require          urge
command       insist                   recommend       stipulate

Examples:
The judge insisted that the jury return a verdict immediately.
The university requires that all its students take this course.
The doctor suggested that his patient stop smoking.
Congress has decreed that the gasoline tax be abolished.
We proposed that he take a vacation.
I move that we adjourn until this afternoon.

There is also a list of adjectives after which you should use that and follow them by a simple verb form:

Code:
advised       necessary   recommended   urgent
important    obligatory   required           imperative
mandatory   proposed    suggested


it + be (any tense) + adjective + that + subject + verb in simple tense


Examples:
It is necessary that he find the books.
It was urgent that she leave at once.
It has been proposed that we change the topic.
It is important that you remember this question.
It has been suggested that he forget the election.
It was recommended that we wait for the authorities.



Hi bb,

Thanks a lot for this detailed post regarding the subjunctive mood.

I have a doubt here, I am following egmat Verbal tutorials and in one video of subjunctive mood they have mentioned ADVISE requires "to verb" not "Subjunctive verb".

In this post you mentioned "ADVISE" requires the subjunctive verb, Could you please clear my doubt.

Also, I have read all comments of this post and found that you were going to share a pdf of words that need a subjunctive verb, could you please share that.

Thanks a lot.


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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   02 Aug 2021, 06:54
bb wrote:
I think I actually have a list of verbs that are used with subjunctive, so it is easy just to memorize them. I will post when I get back home.


Hey, is this list of verbs that are used with subjunctive shared somewhere?
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   02 Aug 2021, 07:41
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SS97 wrote:
bb wrote:
I think I actually have a list of verbs that are used with subjunctive, so it is easy just to memorize them. I will post when I get back home.


Hey, is this list of verbs that are used with subjunctive shared somewhere?



I think the second post has them.

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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   10 Nov 2021, 10:48
amkabdul wrote:
Hello Experts,

That GMAT club grammar book clearly says that "advise" is a command subjunctive verb and should be followed by THAT + subject+ Verb in bare form (many other grammar websites have voted the same)

Eg: Everyone is advised that they be here on time.

But the Manhattan SC Guide clearly says that Advised is followed by an infinitive.

Can you please clear this doubt of mine and tell me the exact construction to be used for "Advise"


Same doubt. Egmat also says to use to + verb with advice.

please explain bb GMATNinja ManhattanPrep egmat
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   11 Nov 2021, 12:54
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abhinavkant3 wrote:
amkabdul wrote:
Hello Experts,

That GMAT club grammar book clearly says that "advise" is a command subjunctive verb and should be followed by THAT + subject+ Verb in bare form (many other grammar websites have voted the same)

Eg: Everyone is advised that they be here on time.

But the Manhattan SC Guide clearly says that Advised is followed by an infinitive.

Can you please clear this doubt of mine and tell me the exact construction to be used for "Advise"


Same doubt. Egmat also says to use to + verb with advice.

please explain bb GMATNinja ManhattanPrep egmat

Either usage seems okay to me. Some examples:

  • The authorities advised Tim to untie his child.
  • I advise that you put more ice cream on your pie. :-P
  • I advise you to put more ice cream on your pie. :-P :-P

So I wouldn't waste any brain space on this idiomatic issue -- or any other idiom. The odds that you see this split are very very low, and if you do see it, I'd only use it as a decision point if one of the constructions created an illogical meaning.

I hope that helps!
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post   08 Jan 2024, 07:08
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