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The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion

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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 06 Feb 2014, 09:51
beckee529 wrote:
The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

A) The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being

B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet

D) As the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

E) The stars are in motion like the planets, some of which at tremendous speeds are in motion but

to me they all sound retarded...


this is beautiful problem.

"some of them at tremendous speeds" in A is adjectival which modifies "stars". this modification relation is not logic. "being..." in A is correct

"some of them at tremenous speeds" in B is adverbial which modifies the previous clause. this modification is logic.

do you agree with me? pls share your thought.
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 10 Apr 2014, 22:14
beckee529 wrote:
The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

A) The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being

B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet

D) As the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

E) The stars are in motion like the planets, some of which at tremendous speeds are in motion but

to me they all sound retarded...


Please explain how B is correct. Manhattan SC states that 'Like' cannot be used for comparison if there is a clause. Isn't 'the stars are in motion' a clause or am i making a very stupid mistake here
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 11 Apr 2014, 05:20
nityamskhurana wrote:
beckee529 wrote:
The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

A) The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being

B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet

D) As the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

E) The stars are in motion like the planets, some of which at tremendous speeds are in motion but

to me they all sound retarded...


Please explain how B is correct. Manhattan SC states that 'Like' cannot be used for comparison if there is a clause. Isn't 'the stars are in motion' a clause or am i making a very stupid mistake here


I think you misunderstand the Manhattan SC. You are focusing on the part that "like" is modifying, when you should be focusing on the "like" itself.

It should not be "like [clause], ...". In this case we have "like [the planets], ..." which is "like [noun], ...". Another way to look at it:

[Like the planets, the stars] are in motion
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 19 Apr 2014, 10:29
Hi -- Two questions:

Can someone explain the difference here between "like" vs. "as"? I was under the impression that "as" is used to compare clauses vs. "like" which is used to compare nouns, correct?

I narrowed it down to B and D and chose D because I *thought* that I was comparing the "motion of the stars" to the "motion of the planets". Doesn't that warrant a clause comparison, in turn, using "as" as the comparison marker?

As a + 1 -- can someone purely use comparison to eliminate the 5 answer choices, I would love to see what is being compared. I can only eliminate "C" b/c of the "although" in the front creates an awkward comparison. Was I wrong?
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2014, 08:14
russ9 wrote:
Hi -- Two questions:

Can someone explain the difference here between "like" vs. "as"? I was under the impression that "as" is used to compare clauses vs. "like" which is used to compare nouns, correct?

I narrowed it down to B and D and chose D because I *thought* that I was comparing the "motion of the stars" to the "motion of the planets". Doesn't that warrant a clause comparison, in turn, using "as" as the comparison marker?

As a + 1 -- can someone purely use comparison to eliminate the 5 answer choices, I would love to see what is being compared. I can only eliminate "C" b/c of the "although" in the front creates an awkward comparison. Was I wrong?

Hi Russ,

I think you should consider reading my post from the first page:

mmagyar wrote:
2.) We see "like" and "as" in the beginning, so comparisons are being tested. "like" needs to be followed by a noun. "as" can be followed by a noun or a subject/verb, but it is NOT a comparison if it is followed by a noun - it is describing function. Because we are comparing how the stars are in motion to how the planets are in motion, "as" needs to be followed by a subject/verb if it is used.

Don't worry so much about the meaning when deciding between like and as; instead, consider the pure structure that follows. I suggest reading this e-GMAT post: as-vs-like-correct-and-incorrect-usages-133950.html

egmat wrote:
Both ‘like’ and ‘as’ are used to state comparisons. For example:
• Amy takes care of the children in the day care like a mother. 
• Amy takes care of the children in the day care as a mother does.
Both sentences are correct. Both the sentences above convey the meaning that Amy takes care of the children “in the same way” as a mother takes care of her children.
But notice the usage here – ‘like’ is followed by a noun and ‘as’ is followed by a clause. This grammatical construction should be kept in mind.

---
In this question, all of the choices are grammatically correct for like/as. There are other meaning issues (modifiers, "although," etc.), but the meaning of the comparison matches for ABCE, so we cannot eliminate them for comparison reasons. D, however, has a comparison problem.

In D, "as" is followed by a noun, so it is telling us that the stars are filling the function of (i.e. becoming) planets when those stars are in motion. What do we mean by function? Consider:

"The student acts like a teacher" - comparison to show that the student is not a teacher, but is acting in a SIMILAR manner
"The student acts as a teacher does" - comparison to show that the student is not a teacher, but is acting in a SIMILAR manner
"The student acts as a teacher" - telling us that the student is filling the role of a teacher (not in a way that is SIMILAR to a teacher, but that the student has actually BECOME a teacher, even if temporarily)

Also, in general, the GMAT seems to like to test the meaning of a comparison much more than the actual grammatical structure. Don't worry so much about like/as and focus more on the meanings that are generated by changing the order of the words.

Hope that helps
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 18 Aug 2014, 22:56
egmat wrote:
kiranck007 wrote:
Hi,

Are you saying "being" is not at all a verb? My wordweb dictionary reports it as a verb too


Hi kiranck007,

“be” is an auxiliary verb, is/am/are/war/were/will etc. are different helping verbs in different forms.

Now is/am/are/war/were/will etc. are considered verbs but “be” or “being” juts by itself is never a verb that can complement a Subject. “being” is what is called present participle. Present participles are not verbs that can complement Subjects. For example:

The work is being done.
Joe, being a naughty boy, never finished his homework on time.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha




Hi Shraddha,

I have a small doubt. Can u pls tell me what type of modifier is "some of them at tremendous speeds". According to me, It is an absolute phrase and It modifies the complete preceding clause, "the stars are in motion". Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks

Last edited by gmateveryday on 26 Feb 2015, 21:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 10 Nov 2014, 09:43
beckee529 wrote:
The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

A) The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being

B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet

D) As the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

E) The stars are in motion like the planets, some of which at tremendous speeds are in motion but

to me they all sound retarded...


Though it took me 20 seconds , but not the best way :)
Like is used to compare 2 nouns
The only choice that does so is B.
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jan 2015, 03:54
The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

A) The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being

B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet

D) As the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

E) The stars are in motion like the planets, some of which at tremendous speeds are in motion but


Can anyone explain the pronoun ambiguity here ?

why is B correct ? when ''they'' has two antedecents ??

it can refer to stars or planets ?
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 11 Mar 2015, 23:50
this is a hard question: we have to make clear that "yet being" is wrong in a few second in the test room.

this is the explanation

in the pattern " main clause+comma +doing"

we can add some, but not all, prepositions or conjunctions. nature of sematic relation between main clause and doing permits us to add some of prepositions and conjunctions.
the conjunctions we can add is
after, while, in , on

the second point is that
being in A, have not meaning/semantic relation with the main clause. this point is easy to talk but hard to do in the test room.

it is alway hardest to realize meaning relation between doing and main clause.
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 21 May 2015, 05:24
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Can some one explain how in option "B" the modifier "some of them at tremendous speeds" modifies the noun "star" and not the "motion" as the modifier is next to noun "motion". OG says it modifies the noun"Star".

Is it a absolute phrase (N + its modifier) and if that is the case then the form of this doesn't match the absolute modifier format. Absolute phrase is like to my understanding : Noun+ that....(clause) or Noun + ing modifier/ Ed modifier

Thanks
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 21 May 2015, 11:05
I have a question related to Ans A.

The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away from Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime

Ans A is wrong because the portion after "comma plus coordinating conjunction" (in this case, ", yet") should be a complete clause? Can any please explain to me if it is the case?
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 21 May 2015, 12:27
The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

The idea is that stars and planets are similar in that they are both in motion.
1. Choices A, C, and E are awkward, incorrect, and don't communicate this idea effectively.
2. Eliminate choice D, since a verb should follow "planets."

A) The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being

B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet

D) As the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

E) The stars are in motion like the planets, some of which at tremendous speeds are in motion but
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 23 May 2015, 08:43
just to clarify that ,yet doesn't means need to follow by a independent clause right?
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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"just to clarify that ,yet doesn't means need to follow by a independent clause right?"

That's correct. Yet can connect clauses, words, or phrases.
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 27 May 2015, 00:57
Thanks ..and one more clarification....based on the definition of clause, all the clause need to have a subject and a main verb. And therefore, relative clause that acts as noun modifier need to follow the same structure too, thought they act as a adjective. Thanks in advance.!
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 27 May 2015, 01:42
"Thanks ..and one more clarification....based on the definition of clause, all the clause need to have a subject and a main verb. And therefore, relative clause that acts as noun modifier need to follow the same structure too, thought they act as a adjective. Thanks in advance.!"

Yes a relative clause/adjective can modify a noun. It's composed of a relative pronoun or adverb (who, which, where..) plus the verb.
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 29 Jan 2016, 01:28
Hi chetan2u / mikemcgarry

Can you please explain why there is no pronoun ambiguity in B.
B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

THEY can also refer to planets.

I am facing a lot of issue in pronoun ambiguity issues and hence I am not confident in eliminating options on the basis of pronoun ambiguity.

Please assist how can I comprehend this topic.
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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RAHKARP27071989 wrote:
Hi chetan2u / mikemcgarry

Can you please explain why there is no pronoun ambiguity in B.
B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

THEY can also refer to planets.

I am facing a lot of issue in pronoun ambiguity issues and hence I am not confident in eliminating options on the basis of pronoun ambiguity.

Please assist how can I comprehend this topic.


First and foremost, pronoun ambiguity has low priority. Many correct answers actually have some level of ambiguity. Only consider it when you have exhausted everything else. (Ambiguity means uncertain, not wrong. It is much worse to be wrong than uncertain.)

Second, a parallelism rule tells us the following:

When two clauses are joined by a conjunction and the second clause begins with a pronoun as the subject, that pronoun should refer to the subject of the first clause.

Here, we have the following structure:

[Modifier], [Subject] [Verb], but [Pronoun] [Verb]

As a result, we have two clauses joined by a conjunction, so the pronoun subject of the second clause ("they") must refer to the subject of the first clause ("stars"). Because "planets" is in a modifier, it is irrelevant to the parallel consideration because it is not the subject of the main clause.

[Edited to make it easier to understand.]
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 29 Jan 2016, 12:48
A primer on subgroup modifiers:

Six different forms of subgroup modifiers are frequently observed. These forms are illustrated using the example above - the first 3 forms are correct and the last three wrong.

1. The stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds,.... Correct

2. The stars are in motion, some at tremendous speeds,.... Correct

3. The stars are in motion, some of which are at tremendous speeds,... Correct

4. The stars are in motion, of which some are at tremendous speeds,... Wrong

5. The stars are in motion, some of which at tremendous speeds,... Wrong

6. The stars are in motion, some of them which are at tremendous speeds,... Wrong
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion [#permalink]

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New post 31 Jan 2016, 15:12
sayantanc2k wrote:
A primer on subgroup modifiers:

Six different forms of subgroup modifiers are frequently observed. These forms are illustrated using the example above - the first 3 forms are correct and the last three wrong.

1. The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds,.... Correct

2. The stars, some at tremendous speeds,.... Correct

3. The stars, some of which are at tremendous speeds,... Correct

4. The stars, of which some are at tremendous speeds,... Wrong

5. The stars, some of which at tremendous speeds,... Wrong

6. The stars, some of them which are at tremendous speeds,... Wrong



I disagree with this usage because it has an incorrect meaning. When the modifier says "at tremendous speeds", it is referring the stars being "in motion", not to an inherent characteristic of "the stars". Thus, the following is incorrect:

  • The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion - implies that the "tremendous speeds" is a characteristic of stars separate from their motion

To fix this, we need to keep the speeds about the motion. The following are correct:

  • The stars, some of them moving at tremendous speeds, are in motion - awkward because we repeat the idea of motion, but not incorrect
  • The stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, - much better

In other words, we have to be careful that the modifier both is grammatically correct and has the correct relationship to that which it modifies in terms of meaning. The difference in meaning in this example is subtle, but it is an important one for the GMAT.
Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion   [#permalink] 31 Jan 2016, 15:12

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