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The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th

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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Jun 2016, 11:36
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EBITDA wrote:
I chose B.

A was the second-best option.

A) The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being

The improvable aspects that I found were:

- "some of them at tremendous speeds" should have been after "in motion", not before.
- It is unclear what subject does the verb "yet being" refers to. Does it refer to stars or to planets?

Hence, discarded. However, it was a good runner-up.

What do you think about the 2 reasons mentioned above?

However, I think that, in option B, it is not totally clear what does "they" refer to.


If a pronoun is subject of a clause and has two possible antecedents, one of them the subject of another clause within the sentence, then the pronoun would unambiguously refer to that subject antecedent.

The stars are in motion, but they....
The subject pronoun "they" clearly refers to the subject noun "stars", and not any other noun ( planets), by virtue of parallelism.
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 17 Jun 2016, 00:34
Hi sayantanc2k,

Could you explain this in a clearer way by putting an example, for instance?

"If a pronoun is subject of a clause and has two possible antecedents, one of them the subject of another clause within the sentence, then the pronoun would unambiguously refer to that subject antecedent."

I do not think that what you are stating is always the case.
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Jun 2016, 14:33
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EBITDA wrote:
Hi sayantanc2k,

Could you explain this in a clearer way by putting an example, for instance?

"If a pronoun is subject of a clause and has two possible antecedents, one of them the subject of another clause within the sentence, then the pronoun would unambiguously refer to that subject antecedent."

I do not think that what you are stating is always the case.


Let us take option B as an example:

Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

"If a pronoun is subject of a clause..": They is the subject of a clause (they are so far away from the Earth ....).
"..has two possible antecedents..": The pronoun they has two possible antecedents - planets and stars.
"..one of them the subject of another clause..": Stars is the subject of another clause (the stars are in motion...).
"...pronoun would unambiguously refer to that subject antecedent": The pronoun they refers to the SUBJECT antecedent stars.
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Aug 2016, 05:31
Could someone please explain, why in the correct answer choice B), "them" and "they" unambiguously refers to stars, and not planets?
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Aug 2016, 05:33
manlog wrote:
Could someone please explain, why in the correct answer choice B), "them" and "they" unambiguously refers to stars, and not planets?


If a pronoun that is the subject of a clause has two possible antecedents, one of which is the subject of another clause within the sentence, the pronoun would, by virtue of parallelism, unambiguously refer to the subject antecedent.

Here "they" is the subject of a clause and so is the antecedent "stars". Hence this reference is unambiguous.
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Sep 2016, 09:08
beckee529 wrote:
The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

A) The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being

B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet

D) As the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

E) The stars are in motion like the planets, some of which at tremendous speeds are in motion but

to me they all sound retarded...

In B, is 'the stars are in motion' modifier' or 'appositive'? if not, then WHY we block off 'the stars are in motion' by comma?
If I say:
Like you I'm the member of GMAT Club. So, should I use comma after 'you' like bellow:
Like you, I'm the member of GMAT Club.
also, 'them' and 'they' refers to what? Does it refer 'planets' or 'stars'?
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Sep 2016, 09:25
sayantanc2k wrote:
manlog wrote:
Could someone please explain, why in the correct answer choice B), "them" and "they" unambiguously refers to stars, and not planets?


If a pronoun that is the subject of a clause has two possible antecedents, one of which is the subject of another clause within the sentence, the pronoun would, by virtue of parallelism, unambiguously refer to the subject antecedent.

Here "they" is the subject of a clause and so is the antecedent "stars". Hence this reference is unambiguous.

So, HOW do we understand that x (stars) is antecedent of y (they), and p (planets) is antecedent of q (them)?
Thanks expert...
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Sep 2016, 09:39
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iMyself wrote:
beckee529 wrote:
The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

A) The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being

B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet

D) As the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

E) The stars are in motion like the planets, some of which at tremendous speeds are in motion but

to me they all sound retarded...

In B, is 'the stars are in motion' modifier' or 'appositive'? if not, then WHY we block off 'the stars are in motion' by comma?
If I say:
Like you I'm the member of GMAT Club. So, should I use comma after 'you' like bellow:
Like you, I'm the member of GMAT Club.
also, 'them' and 'they' refers to what? Does it refer 'planets' or 'stars'?


1. "The stars are in motion" is the main clause. It is not blocked off. It is preceded by a prepositional phrase ("Like the planets"), which is separated by the comma before "the". Again the main clause is succeeded by a subgroup modifier ("some of them..."), which is again separated by a comma after "motion".

2. A comma is generally recommended after "like X".

3. The pronouns "them" and " they" refer to "stars". There are two ways to confirm in this case why these pronouns refer to "stars" and not "planets".
a. If a pronoun that is the subject of a clause has two possible antecedents, one of which is the subject of another clause within the sentence, the pronoun would, by virtue of parallelism, unambiguously refer to the subject antecedent. "Stars" is the subject of a clause and so is "they".
b. The pronoun "them" is within a subgroup modifier. Therefore it must refer to the group (i.e. "stars") that the sub-group modifier is modifying.
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Sep 2016, 09:44
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iMyself wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
manlog wrote:
Could someone please explain, why in the correct answer choice B), "them" and "they" unambiguously refers to stars, and not planets?


If a pronoun that is the subject of a clause has two possible antecedents, one of which is the subject of another clause within the sentence, the pronoun would, by virtue of parallelism, unambiguously refer to the subject antecedent.

Here "they" is the subject of a clause and so is the antecedent "stars". Hence this reference is unambiguous.

So, HOW do we understand that x (stars) is antecedent of y (they), and p (planets) is antecedent of q (them)?
Thanks expert...


Both "they" and "them" refer to "stars". A basic rule about pronouns is that all "they","them","their" and "theirs" must refer to the same antecedent. ( So is true for all he/him/his or she/her/hers etc.)
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Oct 2016, 01:22
Dear experts,
Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime

is "some of them at tremendous speeds" an absolute phrase, which modifies the preceding clause.

please confirm

Quote:
C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet


experts,
like + noun works as a phrase in although clause, does it valid?
what I see mostly is that like + noun works as a comparison, in front of entire sentence.
this is first time for me, I am not sure whether it is valid and none discussed in this thread,
appreciate if clarify

thanks a lot
have a nice day
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Oct 2016, 08:57
zoezhuyan wrote:
Dear experts,
Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime

is "some of them at tremendous speeds" an absolute phrase, which modifies the preceding clause.

please confirm

Quote:
C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet


experts,
like + noun works as a phrase in although clause, does it valid?
what I see mostly is that like + noun works as a comparison, in front of entire sentence.
this is first time for me, I am not sure whether it is valid and none discussed in this thread,
appreciate if clarify

thanks a lot
have a nice day
>_~


"Some of them at tremendous speeds" is a special type of modifier called subgroup modifier. I have discussed about this type here:

the-stars-some-of-them-at-tremendous-speeds-are-in-motion-54399-20.html#p1637254

Structurally, constructions such as "like the planets the stars are in motion" may be used as an independent clause by itself or used within a dependent clause - "Although like the planets the stars are in motion...."
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 18 May 2017, 20:09
beckee529 wrote:
The Official Guide for GMAT Review 2017

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 775
Page: 704

The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

(A) The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being

(B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

(C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet

(D) As the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

(E) The stars are in motion like the planets, some of which at tremendous speeds are in motion but


Two problems with A "some of them ..." is awkward . The stars are in motion at tremendous speeds.

Since speed describes the motion, the sentence is easier to understand if we introduce motion first.

"The stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds."and "being" is clumsy, we want a verb here, since we're talking about two qualities of stars, and we introduced the first one with a verb.

"The stars ARE in motion yet ARE so far from Earth that ..."

First Glance

The underline starts immediately; a glance at the beginning of the answers reveals substantial changes. How should the sentence start?

Issues

(1) Meaning / Modifier: at tremendous speeds

The original sentence says that the stars, some of them are tremendous speeds, are in motion. The stars themselves don't occur at tremendous speeds; rather, the motion occurs at tremendous speeds. The modifier should be pointing to the action (motion), not the noun (stars).

Answers (B), (C), and (D) all clearly tie in the motion to the speeds: in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds. Like answer (A), answer (E) muddles the meaning of this modifier: the planets, some of which at tremendous speeds are in motion.

Furthermore, in answer (E), the some of which modifier points to the preceding noun, planets, not the stars. This answer, then, says that the planets are in motion. It's already common knowledge that planets are in motion; the point of the original sentence was to highlight that the stars are also in motion even though they seem to be fixed in the sky. Eliminate answers (A) and (E).

(2) Structure

The original sentence consists of an independent clause (the stars are in motion as the planets are) followed by a comma and a coordinating conjunction (yet), setting up the expectation for another independent clause.

Chop out the portion after the coordinating conjunction (being so far that X) and read it on its own: that portion is not a complete sentence. The word being could function as a subject−as in the sentence Being far away from loved ones can cause homesickness−but no verb completes the thought. Eliminate answers (A) and (C) because they are sentence fragments.

Answer (C)'s issue is even more severe. Although like is momentarily confusing (because one indicates contrast and the other similarity) and the use of both although and yet is redundant: only one contrast word is needed. Eliminate answer (C).

(3) Comparison: as

Some of the answers contain the comparison marker like: others use the marker as. Like is used to compare two nouns directly; as is used to compare clauses.

Answer (A) correctly uses as to compare two clauses. Answers (B), (C), and (E) correctly use like to compare two nouns. Answer (D), however, uses as to compare two nouns. Eliminate (D).

The Correct Answer

Correct answer (B) consists of two independent clauses connected by a comma and a coordinating conjunction. The sentence makes clear that the motion occurs at tremendous speeds.
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Aug 2017, 09:04
mmagyar wrote:
1.) Notice that the end of some of the answers include a subject/verb, so check sentence structure. ABCD each uses ", but" or ", yet" and each of these requires an independent clause on each side (S/V ", but" S/V). There is no verb after the underlined part, so we need a subject/verb in the answer after the ", but" or ", yet". This knocks out A and C. E doesn't need to be eliminated, because we don't have a comma before "but"

2.) We see "like" and "as" in the beginning, so comparisons are being tested. "like" needs to be followed by a noun. "as" can be followed by a noun or a subject/verb, but it is NOT a comparison if it is followed by a noun - it is describing function. Because we are comparing how the stars are in motion to how the planets are in motion, "as" needs to be followed by a subject/verb if it is used.

3.) The order of "stars" and "planets" changes, which usually indicates a modifier-related meaning issue. Here the sentence is intending to tell us that the "stars" are "so far away from the Earth", not the "planets".

The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

A) The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being - "being" doesn't make this wrong. In fact, the GMAT sometimes starts a clause using being if it is trying to use the state of being something as the subject. What makes this answer wrong is the lack of a subject/verb after the ", yet"

B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are - There is a subject/verb after ", but" and there is proper use of "like". Also, the modifier "some of them" is properly modifying "stars". Don't worry that "them" might be a little ambiguous ("stars" or "planets") because ambiguity is a lower priority than improper sentence structure, improper like/as usage, and improper meaning from improper modifier placement.

C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet - Again, no verb after ", yet"

D) As the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are - "as" is followed by a noun, so it describes the function that the stars are performing, which is not the intended meaning of the sentence

E) The stars are in motion like the planets, some of which at tremendous speeds are in motion but - The modifier "some of which" is describing planets as being far away from the Earth. This is not the intended meaning of the sentence.



THANK YOU!!!!!!!! I hate when they automatically see BEING and say its wrong and they don't really explain what makes it wrong. Yes, Test Makers prefer not to use it, but when they actually use it if it is WRONG it is for another reason. However, I also would like to include something. For me the " yet being" makes it wrong because it is missing a comparison. Let me explain...

The stars are (something), yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime, (missing information). --- So the fact that they are so far way from the earth.... yes? (its like not telling the whole story)

For me correct would be "..., yet being so far away from the earth that their apparent position....., it makes it hard for scientist to study them correctly (for example). <- telling me why the distance although X, Y.

Let me know if my reasoning is correct.
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New post 06 Oct 2017, 13:14
Hello valepm - I did not get your corrected part, but I will try to clarify in short - why usage of "being" is incorrect here.

Notice the highlighted part - Over here the word "yet" is joining the first independent clause to the second one. Which means we should be having a SUBJECT and a VERB after yet. As "being" is neither A SUBJECT nor a VERB in this case, the usage of being is incorrect.

The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away
from Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be
observed during a single human lifetime.

Hope his helps.
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jan 2018, 00:34
hello sir
here my doubt is regarding SOME OF WHICH used in option C
what is the difference between "SOME OF THEM" and "SOME OF WHICH"
SAY,IF THIS WERE THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OPTION A and option E,then which option would be correct?
THANK YOU
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New post 29 Jan 2018, 09:16
JAIN09 wrote:
hello sir
here my doubt is regarding SOME OF WHICH used in option C
what is the difference between "SOME OF THEM" and "SOME OF WHICH"
SAY,IF THIS WERE THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OPTION A and option E,then which option would be correct?
THANK YOU


The following post addresses your query:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/john-s-nephe ... l#p2005604
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Mar 2018, 20:22
sayantanc2k wrote:
EBITDA wrote:
Hi sayantanc2k,

Could you explain this in a clearer way by putting an example, for instance?

"If a pronoun is subject of a clause and has two possible antecedents, one of them the subject of another clause within the sentence, then the pronoun would unambiguously refer to that subject antecedent."

I do not think that what you are stating is always the case.


Let us take option B as an example:

Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

"If a pronoun is subject of a clause..": They is the subject of a clause (they are so far away from the Earth ....).
"..has two possible antecedents..": The pronoun they has two possible antecedents - planets and stars.
"..one of them the subject of another clause..": Stars is the subject of another clause (the stars are in motion...).
"...pronoun would unambiguously refer to that subject antecedent": The pronoun they refers to the SUBJECT antecedent stars.



https://gmatclub.com/forum/joan-of-arc- ... 35813.html

The below is an explanation in above link -
daagh wrote:
An important thumb rule to follow while handling compound sentences is the omission of the subject in the second IC, if the subject of first IC can fit in as well as the subject. Here the subject of both the ICs is Joan and hence you can drop the pronoun – she - in the second IC. The whole sentence will still be //. Secondly, the right idiom is to claim. Both these combinations, you find in choice D only


In a compound sentence, is the repetition of the subject in the part that follows the connector FANBOYS(by replacing with a pronoun) considered redundant?

AjiteshArun , GMATNinja , mikemcgarry , egmat , sayantanc2k, DmitryFarber , MagooshExpert ,chetan2u , daagh , other experts- please help
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New post 18 Mar 2018, 21:45
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Skywalker18 wrote:
In a compound sentence, is the repetition of the subject in the part that follows the connector FANBOYS(by replacing with a pronoun) considered redundant?
In this case, it's just unnecessary (wordy). In another sentence, adding the she might create ambiguity if there is more than one noun to which the she could refer.
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New post 20 Mar 2019, 17:07
Hello Everyone!

Let's tackle this question, one issue at a time, and narrow it down to the correct choice! First, let's take a closer look at the original question and highlight any major differences between the options in orange:

The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

(A) The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being
(B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are
(C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet
(D) As the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are
(E) The stars are in motion like the planets, some of which at tremendous speeds are in motion but

After glancing over the options quickly, a few key differences pop out that we can focus on:

1. yet being / but they are / yet / but (Coordinating Conjunctions)
2. placement of the phrase "some of them at tremendous speeds" (Modifiers/Meaning)
3. just as the planets are / like the planets / as the planets (Idioms/Comparisons)


Let's start with #1 on our list: coordinating conjunctions! Whenever we see coordinating conjunctions as one of our key differences, we MUST check to see that they are being used properly. Coordinating conjunctions (for, and, nor, but, or, yet, so) can only be use to connect 2 independent clauses. Let's take a look at each option to figure out if they are using conjunctions correctly. (I've added the non-underlined portion of the sentence to help see the problem.)

(A) The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

independent clause + yet + dependent clause = WRONG

(B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

independent clause + but + independent clause = OK

(C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

independent clause + yet + dependent clause = WRONG

(D) As the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

independent clause + but + independent clause = OK

(E) The stars are in motion like the planets, some of which at tremendous speeds are in motion but being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.

independent clause + but + dependent clause = WRONG (This is also missing a comma before the conjunction "but.")

There you go - we can eliminate options A, C, & E because they don't use coordinating conjunctions properly!

Now that we have it narrowed down to only 2 options, let's take a closer look at each one and see if we can find any problems:

(B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

This is the CORRECT choice! The preposition "like" should always be used after a noun, which it is here.

(D) As the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

This is INCORRECT. The word "as" should only be used as a conjunction to join two clauses together. Since the phrase "As the planets" isn't a clause with a subject and verb, this doesn't work.


There you have it - option B is our correct choice!


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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th  [#permalink]

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New post 18 May 2019, 02:43
[quote="beckee529"]The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being so far away from the Earth that their apparent positions in the sky do not change enough for their movement to be observed during a single human lifetime.


(A) The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as the planets are, yet being

(B) Like the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

(C) Although like the planets the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, yet

(D) As the planets, the stars are in motion, some of them at tremendous speeds, but they are

(E) The stars are in motion like the planets, some of which at tremendous speeds are in motion but

the point here is how to eliminate choice A.

one of frequent problem we need to solve on sc is (to) choose an adjectival phrase or adverbial phrase. gmat sc presents us this problem frequently. in this question, we meet the problem again.

the point here is the phrase " some of them at tremendous speeds".
in choice A, this phrase is adjectival, which modifies "stars". this phrase can not modify "are in motion" on basis of the pattern of choice a. grammatically, this phrase is call "appositive', a phrase stand next to a noun to give some information of the noun.

so, choice A means

the stars , some of which move at tremendous speed, are in motion just as the planets are

this is not wrong. but it seem not very good.

now, look at choice B.

in choice b, "some of them at tremendous speed" is adverbial , which modifies "stars are in motion". in fact, "some of them...." is call absolute phrase, which semantically offer an independent meaning as a independent sentence do but it has no enough elements as an independent do.

the star are in motion, some of them at tremendous speed

many persons learn gmat, some of them in good spirit.

many person learn gmat, some of them learning in effective way

noun+noun modifier can work as an adverb. (before noun+noun modifier, there maybe is "with" "

so, choice is very good. " some of them at tremendous speed" well modifies "the stars in motion".

now compare the adjectival modification in choice a and adverbial modification in choice b. clearly, choice b offer a close meaning relation. in choice A, meaning relation is not close, why "some of them at tremendous" is inserted.

yes, choice B is correct.

in gmat, this case happen frequently. normally, the phrase in adverbial position is correct and the phrase in adjectival position is incorrect.

am i correct ?
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Re: The stars, some of them at tremendous speeds, are in motion just as th   [#permalink] 18 May 2019, 02:43

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