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To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers

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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Sep 2014, 08:07
1
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.

A. have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic - Since it is a hypothetical situation, a conditional clause must be used. Economic is correct
B. have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical - Hypothetical Situation + Economical is wrong
C. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical - Would Have is correct. Economical is wrong.
D. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic - Correct
E. would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economical - Illogical Comparison between knowledge and Time (Now). Economical is wrong

Economic - Is used to refer to general general economy
Economical is used for cost wise reference. E.g. Product X is economical (not economic)
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Mar 2016, 00:56
Post bump. Still unable to understand this even with extensive reading online. Any taker?

gmatretest wrote:
TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

I got asked about this privately, but I think the same question was asked by mymisc as well. The question is, do we need the "would" here, and why? The issue is that this sentence is a hypothetical/conditional:

To develop more accurate population forecasts

We could reword this as "If we wanted more accurate forecasts, demographers..."

In a conditional construction, we need the "would". Look at how it would work in a NON-conditional:

To develop accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more...

See how, in that example, without the "more," we're just talking about a fact (how forecasts are developed accurately)? But with the conditional, we need the complete conditional construction, with "would."

Let me know if you have any follow-up questions!

-t


GmatDestroyer2013 wrote:
yolandaxu wrote:
How can we find out that the sentence explains a hypothetical situation? Are there any signal words?


To identify the hypothetical situation you have to understand the meaning also there is ,in some cases, inclusion of 'if'/'wish' clause that marks the hypothetical situation.
Think is the sentence is talking about an uncertainty (contrary to reality) for example :

If it rains,(then) we will go out -- here IF denotes the conditional occurrence of an event in future on which another event depends which might occur.
Here we used 'will' because the conditional clause is in present tense.

other cases Past and Perfect - uses would and would have respectively.... Other point to note such sentence always uses plural verb form (instead of was -- it will be were) irrespective of the subject
If I were king, I would rule the world.
If I had two cars, I would have never own a bicycle.

"would" is generally used for the refer future in the past.


Is there any clear guideline (eg. "more" as a must-be signal word) in distinguishing between a factual sentence and a hypothetical/conditional situation?
Seriously, I fail to justify why this sentence can't be a factual statement (since it lacks "if"), which makes "would" redundant.
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 06 May 2016, 09:07
english_august wrote:
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.


A. have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
B. have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
C. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
D. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E. would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economical
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Jun 2016, 10:58
The phrase has to use a tense that isn't the present. The comparison has to follow a parallel structure. The impact is economic rather than economical.

All 3 conditions point to one answer choice: D.
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 21 Jul 2016, 21:53
english_august wrote:
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.

A. have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
B. have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
C. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
D. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E. would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economical


Since we are talking about future, there is an uncertainty. hence we need to use would not have.
Eliminate options A and B

There is a big difference between economical (cheap) and economic (related to money matters)
We are talking about economic determinants.
Eliminate options C and E

Correct Option: D

Originally posted by OptimusPrepJanielle on 20 Jul 2016, 21:25.
Last edited by OptimusPrepJanielle on 21 Jul 2016, 21:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jul 2016, 00:37
english_august wrote:
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.

A. have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
B. have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
C. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
D. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E. would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economical


ANSWER IS D

First of all one should know use of ECONOMICAL is incorrect in this sentence. "ECONOMICAL" means affordable, cheap, not expensive
The correct term to use here would be "ECONOMIC". ECONOMIC means related to money, economics or monetary reasons

Option B,C and E are out because of wrong word "ECONOMICAL"

Option A and D remaining

Since the sentence suggest a future action, "would" is the correct tense

Option A is out because it makes a faulty comparison and is not parallel. Also does not have the correct future tense "would"

Option D is flawless.:- Correct term "Economic" Correct comparison "demographers .... great deal more than they do" and correct future tense "would"

A. have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
B. have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
C. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
D. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E. would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economical
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Sep 2016, 01:36
[quote="devinawilliam83"]To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.

A. have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
The sentence refers to an action in future tense. "would have" correctly reflects the tense than "have"
B. have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
The sentence refers to an action in future tense. "would have" correctly reflects the tense than "have"
"economical" refers to something good value in return,while "economic" is something related to money
C. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
"economical" refers to something good value in return,while "economic" is something related to money
D. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
Correct: tense of the sentence is correct. Word "economic" is correctly used
E. would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economical
"economical" refers to something good value in return,while "economic" is something related to money
click "kudos" if it helped :-D
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Feb 2017, 04:03
Hi mikemcgarry,
How are you ?

I know here is a video to explain of this question on Magoosh, unfortunately, YOUTUBE is not available in China, I am afraid I need your further writing explanation.

My version, from O 16 # 61, is a little different with the initial poster, I found that last word of choice is economic , instead of economical

OG 16 # 61 version,
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.
(A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
(B) have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(C) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
(E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic


I am struggling with A, D and E.
I can understand that comparison should be logical, meaning
for this case, the comparison is either future time VS present time, or future knowledge VS present knowledge,

Here is my reasoning , please point out my faults. thanks
A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
first, I think "have to know "is sensible, because it presents the necessary to get the knowledge in order to improve future accuracy.
second, I review choice A as omit, -- have to know a great deal more than( they know ) now.
"they" refers to demographers, know is a verb that appears preceding.

D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
first, IMO, "would have to know" presents demographers' necessary in the future, I think of it as available as well.
second, both D and E have a comparison that "demographers have to know " VS "they know/do" .. I am not sure how should I distinguish D and E, because I think that E omits "they do".

Genuinely want your help

Thanks in advance

have a nice day
>_~
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Feb 2017, 11:27
zoezhuyan wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry,
How are you ?

I know here is a video to explain of this question on Magoosh, unfortunately, YOUTUBE is not available in China, I am afraid I need your further writing explanation.

My version, from O 16 # 61, is a little different with the initial poster, I found that last word of choice is economic , instead of economical.

OG 16 # 61 version,
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.
(A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
(B) have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(C) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
(E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic


I am struggling with A, D and E.
I can understand that comparison should be logical, meaning
for this case, the comparison is either future time VS present time, or future knowledge VS present knowledge,

Here is my reasoning , please point out my faults. thanks
A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
first, I think "have to know "is sensible, because it presents the necessary to get the knowledge in order to improve future accuracy.
second, I review choice A as omit, -- have to know a great deal more than( they know ) now.
"they" refers to demographers, know is a verb that appears preceding.

D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
first, IMO, "would have to know" presents demographers' necessary in the future, I think of it as available as well.
second, both D and E have a comparison that "demographers have to know " VS "they know/do" .. I am not sure how should I distinguish D and E, because I think that E omits "they do".

Genuinely want your help

Thanks in advance

have a nice day
>_~

Dear zoezhuyan,

How are you my friend? I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, you are correct: other sources on the web list choice (E) as "economic," not "economical." I changed the original post.

What's wrong with (A) is subtle. The sentence begins:
To develop more accurate population forecasts . . .
The implication is that the forecast now are not accurate, at least not as accurate as they could be. This is suggesting a contrary-to-fact situation, the existence of something better than what exists now. In fact, the whole sentence has this contrary-to-fact tone, comparing what would be ideal to what is true now. All of this requires the verb "would have." This has a hypothetical implication. The verb "have" sounds too factual, as if all these ideal conditions were already in existence. This is why (A) is wrong.

To understand the difference between (D) and (E), think about a simpler example.
Version #1: In order to get a perfect score on the GMAT Verbal, you would need to know more than now.
Version #2: In order to get a perfect score on the GMAT Verbal, you would need to know more than you know now.
Version #1 sounds awkward. Yes, we know what the speaker is trying to say, but it sounds awkward. It sounds as if we are comparing knowledge to the location in time known as "now." It's awkward in a bizarre way. By contrast, version #2 is flawless.

Much in the same way, (E) is a a bit awkward, and (D) is clear and flawless. Thus, (D) is the better answer of these two and the best of the five.

Does all this make sense, my friend?
Mike :-)
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Dec 2017, 04:29
mikemcgarry wrote:
zoezhuyan wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry,
How are you ?

I know here is a video to explain of this question on Magoosh, unfortunately, YOUTUBE is not available in China, I am afraid I need your further writing explanation.

My version, from O 16 # 61, is a little different with the initial poster, I found that last word of choice is economic , instead of economical.

OG 16 # 61 version,
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.
(A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
(B) have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(C) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
(E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic


I am struggling with A, D and E.
I can understand that comparison should be logical, meaning
for this case, the comparison is either future time VS present time, or future knowledge VS present knowledge,

Here is my reasoning , please point out my faults. thanks
A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
first, I think "have to know "is sensible, because it presents the necessary to get the knowledge in order to improve future accuracy.
second, I review choice A as omit, -- have to know a great deal more than( they know ) now.
"they" refers to demographers, know is a verb that appears preceding.

D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
first, IMO, "would have to know" presents demographers' necessary in the future, I think of it as available as well.
second, both D and E have a comparison that "demographers have to know " VS "they know/do" .. I am not sure how should I distinguish D and E, because I think that E omits "they do".

Genuinely want your help

Thanks in advance

have a nice day
>_~

Dear zoezhuyan,

How are you my friend? I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, you are correct: other sources on the web list choice (E) as "economic," not "economical." I changed the original post.

What's wrong with (A) is subtle. The sentence begins:
To develop more accurate population forecasts . . .
The implication is that the forecast now are not accurate, at least not as accurate as they could be. This is suggesting a contrary-to-fact situation, the existence of something better than what exists now. In fact, the whole sentence has this contrary-to-fact tone, comparing what would be ideal to what is true now. All of this requires the verb "would have." This has a hypothetical implication. The verb "have" sounds too factual, as if all these ideal conditions were already in existence. This is why (A) is wrong.

To understand the difference between (D) and (E), think about a simpler example.
Version #1: In order to get a perfect score on the GMAT Verbal, you would need to know more than now.
Version #2: In order to get a perfect score on the GMAT Verbal, you would need to know more than you know now.
Version #1 sounds awkward. Yes, we know what the speaker is trying to say, but it sounds awkward. It sounds as if we are comparing knowledge to the location in time known as "now." It's awkward in a bizarre way. By contrast, version #2 is flawless.

Much in the same way, (E) is a a bit awkward, and (D) is clear and flawless. Thus, (D) is the better answer of these two and the best of the five.

Does all this make sense, my friend?
Mike :-)


Hi Mike,
option d looks the best. But I have a query with the use of would. Would is used correctly when there is a reference of another past event.
Ex- If I had 10 million $, I would buy the luxury car.
Ex- The scientist believes that the machine would be wonderful.

The above example is wrong as 'believes' is in present. If believes is replaced by 'believed' the ex becomes correct.
Again, if we the have the sentence- I would buy the car, this sentence is wrong as we dont have a clear past event reference.
Now, in option D, would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical- here do is in present tense and so how can we ignore the past tense reference.
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 04 Dec 2017, 17:47
sunny91 wrote:

Hi Mike,
option d looks the best. But I have a query with the use of would. Would is used correctly when there is a reference of another past event.
Ex- If I had 10 million $, I would buy the luxury car.
Ex- The scientist believes that the machine would be wonderful.

The above example is wrong as 'believes' is in present. If believes is replaced by 'believed' the ex becomes correct.
Again, if we the have the sentence- I would buy the car, this sentence is wrong as we dont have a clear past event reference.
Now, in option D, would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical- here do is in present tense and so how can we ignore the past tense reference.

Dear sunny91,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, many student labor under the misconception that one can arrive at GMAT SC mastery by memorizing some mythical "complete" set of grammar rules. This rule-based approach to the GMAT SC is doomed to failure. Yes, there are some important rules, and it's important to know those--for example, SVA. Nevertheless, many patterns in language are much more complex and demand broad intuition about the language. The only way a non-native speaker develops this intuition is through the habit of reading. See:
How to Improve Your GMAT Verbal Score

I would say that any rule you have learned about the use of "would" is almost virtually useless, as this word has a bewildering multiplicity of uses.

One use is in the subjunctive, in a contrary-to-fact statement, the word "would" expresses the consequences in this contrary-to-fact world. Your first statement is an example of this.
1) If I had $10M, I would buy a luxury car. = correct statement in the subjunctive

Another correct use involves somebody's speculation of a future possibility. Your second statement is correct in this sense:
2) The scientist believes that such a machine would be wonderful. = also 100% correct

Another use is as the future tense from the perspective of a speaker in the past, when using sequence of tenses.
3) By the summer of 1824, Beethoven felt that he had said all he wanted to say in symphonic form, but that he still would have more to say in the string quartet format.

Another use, admittedly somewhat less likely to show up on the GMAT, is as an expression of preference, often considered gracious and polite.
4) I would be interested to find out more about your trip.
5) Would you please tell me about this book that you you reading?

All five of these are 100% correct. It's very hard to make a simple rule for "would."

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 04 Dec 2017, 22:20
mikemcgarry wrote:
sunny91 wrote:

Hi Mike,
option d looks the best. But I have a query with the use of would. Would is used correctly when there is a reference of another past event.
Ex- If I had 10 million $, I would buy the luxury car.
Ex- The scientist believes that the machine would be wonderful.

The above example is wrong as 'believes' is in present. If believes is replaced by 'believed' the ex becomes correct.
Again, if we the have the sentence- I would buy the car, this sentence is wrong as we dont have a clear past event reference.
Now, in option D, would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical- here do is in present tense and so how can we ignore the past tense reference.

Dear sunny91,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, many student labor under the misconception that one can arrive at GMAT SC mastery by memorizing some mythical "complete" set of grammar rules. This rule-based approach to the GMAT SC is doomed to failure. Yes, there are some important rules, and it's important to know those--for example, SVA. Nevertheless, many patterns in language are much more complex and demand broad intuition about the language. The only way a non-native speaker develops this intuition is through the habit of reading. See:
How to Improve Your GMAT Verbal Score

I would say that any rule you have learned about the use of "would" is almost virtually useless, as this word has a bewildering multiplicity of uses.

One use is in the subjunctive, in a contrary-to-fact statement, the word "would" expresses the consequences in this contrary-to-fact world. Your first statement is an example of this.
1) If I had $10M, I would buy a luxury car. = correct statement in the subjunctive

Another correct use involves somebody's speculation of a future possibility. Your second statement is correct in this sense:
2) The scientist believes that such a machine would be wonderful. = also 100% correct

Another use is as the future tense from the perspective of a speaker in the past, when using sequence of tenses.
3) By the summer of 1824, Beethoven felt that he had said all he wanted to say in symphonic form, but that he still would have more to say in the string quartet format.

Another use, admittedly somewhat less likely to show up on the GMAT, is as an expression of preference, often considered gracious and polite.
4) I would be interested to find out more about your trip.
5) Would you please tell me about this book that you you reading?

All five of these are 100% correct. It's very hard to make a simple rule for "would."

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)


Hi Mike,
Thanks for the response. Sorry to say, but I am still not very clear. I know that usage of would in case of desire/purpose avoid past reference. Example- I would like to have some tea.
Otherwise, in conditional/subjunctive case, we use a past reference. Now, u mentioned that the below sentence is 100% correct.
The scientist believes that such a machine would be wonderful. This is another correct use involves somebody's speculation of a future possibility.

My question is in logical terms whats is the difference in meaning
The scientist believes that such a machine would be wonderful. The scientist believed that such a machine would be wonderful.
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2017, 15:21
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sunny91 wrote:
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the response. Sorry to say, but I am still not very clear. I know that usage of would in case of desire/purpose avoid past reference. Example- I would like to have some tea.
Otherwise, in conditional/subjunctive case, we use a past reference. Now, u mentioned that the below sentence is 100% correct.
The scientist believes that such a machine would be wonderful. This is another correct use involves somebody's speculation of a future possibility.

My question is in logical terms whats is the difference in meaning
The scientist believes that such a machine would be wonderful. The scientist believed that such a machine would be wonderful.

Dear sunny91,

I'm happy to respond. The difference concerns whether the future item is viewed as a sure thing or is speculative.

Case I: future event is viewed as factual and certain
present:
1) The general believes that the enemy will attack from the south.
past:
2) The general believed that the enemy would attack from the south.
There, "would" is just the past tense of "will." In both cases, the general was viewing the attack as something guaranteed to to happen, from his point of view. Since #2 is in the past, it might be followed by a factual statement of what actually did happen.

Case II: future event is hypothetical or contrary-to-fact.
present:
3) The general believes that the enemy would attack from the south.
That sentence is correct, but it provokes the question: why doesn't the enemy attach from the south?
This might also appear with an explanatory conditional:
4) The general believes that the enemy would attack from the south if it can cover all that ground in such a short time.
In other words, we are expecting the result if the condition is met, but overall, we are still doubtful that this condition will be met.

It's much harder to talk about what was hypothetical in the past. I guarantee that the GMAT will not be interested in testing that.

Once again, I cannot emphasize enough how much the habit of reading can help with dozens and dozens of questions of this sort. Once you develop intuition for all these words in context, much will become clear. I recommend that blog linked in my previous post.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Mar 2018, 08:51
1. Is the sentence strictly a hypothetical sentence or can it also be treated as a conditional sentence? I personally don't think this is a conditional sentence. Please let me know if I am correct.

2. Now, if the sentence is indeed a conditional statement, then the "if" part of the sentence will be "To develop more accurate population forecasts", which is in present tense. So as per grammar rules:
When the "if" part of the sentence is present tense, the "then" part which is "demographers have to know..." either should be in simple present if it denotes a fact or habit or should be in future tense it expresses a certainity or a possibility.

Now, the "then" part is surely displaying a fact. So why should we use "would"?
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Mar 2018, 22:43
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.

(A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
(B) have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(C) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
(E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic

POE1: Economic Vs. Economical- Economical means "cost-effective". Here it's use is not making sense. B and C out.
POE2: We need a conditional structure to justify "To develop more accurate population forecasts"- Here "Would" can be used for conditional use- A is out
POE 3: What is being compared here? "Demographers what know now" and "what is required to be known".
E. "would have to know a great deal more than" now about the social and economic - Here Verb " To know" is being compared with "now". it should be Verb Vs. Verb- E is out
D. is correctly comparing what would have to know vs. what they know now. -Correct
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Mar 2018, 10:18
english_august wrote:
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.

(A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
(B) have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(C) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
(E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic


(A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic

(B) have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical

(C) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical

(D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic

(E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic

(D)
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers &nbs [#permalink] 30 Mar 2018, 10:18

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